So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

@Serenissima123

I have a lot of Italian friends, lived in Italy for a year and speak the language (I'm an Italian>English translator). I also have three black friends who live in Italy. The racism in Italy makes England look like an absolute utopia. If you are black and live in Italy, it doesn't matter how many years you've lived there or how well you speak Italian, you will always be treated like a foreigner who has just got off a dinghy from Africa. When my black Italian friend came to visit me in the UK, they couldn't believe how much better they were treated here, and how normal it felt to be black in Britain.

My 2 pence.

this and @Topia don't fit a lot of people's agenda on here though unfortunately.

Crazy that we can be having continuous discussions about racism/discrimination/poor behaviour but the continuous England bashing threads that are rife on here atm do not realise how ironic they are.

Having seen Billy Bragg’s house I think he should be ashamed to be a socialist (unless he’s kindly sharing it out).

Quite a few people saying that there is hooliganism around the world. Yes, this is true, but English hooliganism seems to be more prevalent or extreme. I was living in Amsterdam when the Euros were in The Netherlands and Belgium. There was bad behaviour before every match, but it was off the scale when England were playing. I lived next to a notorious pub, so saw it with my own eyes.

Having said that, while I feel the OP's despair, I'm not ashamed to be English, there are many good, decent, people in this nation. It's the current bunch of incompetent, intolerant, anti-science and sometimes openly racist politicians in power at the moment who make me feel ashamed and worried about the future.

@fairycakes1234

I live in ireland and sorry to say I think majority of Irish were hoping England would lose, I dont know anyone that wanted England to win and thats the truth smile Some brillant whatsapp going around !!

Nice bit of racism there against the English. Well done for posting.

The left-wing narrative on Mumsnet, of course, won’t accept that England is a far less racist place to live than pretty much any other country in Europe!

@Fairycakes1234 - your post really saddens me. I've just posted on another thread about anti-English sentiment and my DDs reaction to learning about the ABE mentality. I'm normally proud of having some Irish ancestry but having read your post.. not so much!!

Hasn't there been games recently where players have stopped play and gone off because of the racism..wasnt in England. Unfortunately its not a English football fan thing. Far from it!

Booing during the anthem..stupid..during the game however. Happens all the time

@walkoflifewoohoo

No, have you seen the state of the Italians and how they trashed their streets etc last night? Not to mention their dirty play.

I'm not proud of a few dickheads spoiling it for the rest but I'd prefer to be English today and I'm not ashamed

Whataboutery

[quote fairycakes1234]@morepizzapls well its an attitude that a lot of people have, sorry to have to burst your bubble.[/quote]
Weird attitude. Although you're on the right thread - you will find many kindred spirits on here who will gladly share their tales of those darned English folk.

@SlipperyDipper have a look at any newspaper and you will find out. Disgusting behaviour.

Yes, It was unclear to me why Irish racism on the internet is better than English racism in a stadium.

[quote Topia]@fairycakes1234

I live in ireland and sorry to say I think majority of Irish were hoping England would lose, I dont know anyone that wanted England to win and thats the truth smile Some brillant whatsapp going around !!

Nice bit of racism there against the English. Well done for posting.[/quote]
It’s racism to hope a team doesn’t win a game of football. That’s hilarious . I’m sure you were rooting for Italy last night then or that would be racist too going by your logic .

Steady on!

There are yobs in any nationality, England is no worse than anywhere else at times.

Of course we feel ashamed, thank goodness so many do.

The vast majority of the English go about their business and are reasonably law abiding. We are!

No. I'm not embarrassed. There's always idiots.

The abuse of Rashford, Sancho and Saka makes me 🤮

But there is racism everywhere. UK is making slow progress. We are better than many other countries, because it's being talked about more, since Black Lives Matter, Floyd etc. We are ahead of many other countries. I'm proud of that. It's a WIP that is going to take a long time.

They have booed national anthems they booed the Denmark national anthem. But we both agree it's out of order.

Also booing during the match I never get, you are watching an elite level sporting event not a Christmas pantomime! Captain Hook and the ugly sisters aren't coming on to play midfield 🤣

Whataboutery

It’s not whataboutery, no ones defending these actions.
People are simply saying they are not allowing the actions of a few to define them.

Imagine seeing the class of the English squad and manager, and then the thuggish actions of a few ‘fans’, and deciding to align yourself with the thugs, and decide it’s them that define you!
So dumb

Our once lorded [sic] NHS has finally been shown just how hard the austerity cuts have been been and its no longer fit for purpose...

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

NHS funding has increased every year.

I've just posted on another thread about anti-English sentiment and my DDs reaction to learning about the ABE mentality.

There's a reason that the ABE mentality exists and there's a reason English football fans have the reputation they do. When the entire world views you in a certain way its maybe time to stop deflecting and ask why?

@ApplyWithin

The left-wing narrative on Mumsnet, of course, won’t accept that England is a far less racist place to live than pretty much any other country in Europe!

This.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

Whataboutery

It’s not whataboutery, no ones defending these actions.
People are simply saying they are not allowing the actions of a few to define them.

Imagine seeing the class of the English squad and manager, and then the thuggish actions of a few ‘fans’, and deciding to align yourself with the thugs, and decide it’s them that define you!
So dumb

The clips I have seen are not a few fans. It was hundreds and hundreds if not thousands. . I guess the fact domestic violence goes up in by England by 38% when England lose is a few fans too. The minimising is ridiculous this can’t be sweep under the carpet

@Buccanarab

I've just posted on another thread about anti-English sentiment and my DDs reaction to learning about the ABE mentality.

There's a reason that the ABE mentality exists and there's a reason English football fans have the reputation they do. When the entire world views you in a certain way its maybe time to stop deflecting and ask why?

a bit over the top to assume the entire world particularly gives a shit about England.

Hooliganism and racism is far far more extreme in the former eastern block countries.

@Buccanarab

I've just posted on another thread about anti-English sentiment and my DDs reaction to learning about the ABE mentality.

There's a reason that the ABE mentality exists and there's a reason English football fans have the reputation they do. When the entire world views you in a certain way its maybe time to stop deflecting and ask why?

Please tell me what these reasons are, and I’m pretty sure I can show you examples of said behaviour in other countries too.

The irony meter is off the chart on this thread.

@Buccanarab

I've just posted on another thread about anti-English sentiment and my DDs reaction to learning about the ABE mentality.

There's a reason that the ABE mentality exists and there's a reason English football fans have the reputation they do. When the entire world views you in a certain way its maybe time to stop deflecting and ask why?

Because they’re ignorant cunts?

No one is denying England has a problem with its football fans. Anyone who views England as unique with this problem or being the worst nation in the world for this is ignorant and doesn’t follow world football.

@Buccanarab - sorry but I don't believe that the entire world sees the English in a certain way. Just a few judgemental and prejudiced people or are you saying that my 15yr old DD should be ashamed to be English?