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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

So embarrassed to be English today

999 replies

UpSlyDown · 12/07/2021 12:20

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

OP posts:

Thread gallery

HmmmmmmInteresting · 13/07/2021 19:30

The fish rots from the head

Pinklemonade1 · 13/07/2021 19:31

I'm completely disgusted by the trolls who have hidden behind their computers and given online racist abuse to our players. But am I ashamed to be English? Never. Go to every country in the world and there is racism. Obviously that doesn't make it right but it doesn't make us unique. Having followed England during the world cup and the Euros I can say I didn't see any bad behaviour. A bunch of German fans were trying to cause a riot. I lived in the Netherlands and Marseille fans came and trashed the city. The overwhelming majority of England fans are good people. The racism comes from people who are genuinely stupid and small minded and probably can't even read or write. We need to stay proud of our country and all work harder to educate the idiots, to push for change, to educate our children as people aren't born racist.. that is a learned behaviour. I have real hope for the future generation. We need to stand together and not let the internet or journalism or politics divide us which I often think Is what half of this stems from.

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 19:33

Oh @HmmmmmmInteresting stop being so dramatic you're sounding like Eric Cantona now 🙄.

nopuppiesallowed · 13/07/2021 19:39

@Noterook

How do you feel about the overwhelming majority, we are talking millions upon millions of people who find the actions of these people abhorrent? It is not the majority of the country at all hurling racist abuse at players or tearing up the streets (although standard behaviour most weekends in city centres by drunk men- that's the cause not football), and yes of course that doesn't make it okay, but its weird how the actions of the overwhelming majority are overriden by the few who scream the loudest as if they don't exist and everyone feels the same. I hope each and every one of those who felt it their right to hop onto the Internet and make vile comments is found and recieves punishment, not minimising it, but there are thousands of positive and supportive comments and people calling out the arsholes; yet looking at MN you'd think that wasn't the case. Any is unacceptable, but not sure how we can move forward and change things if people dont see that there is push back, that that there are loads who don't feel that way and want change if everyone throws their hands up and proclaims how terrible the country is, how embarrassed they are and shy away rather than try and address it.

Do you look at other countries and find the worst examples of behaviour and assume its the case for the whole country?

I totally agree with this. Racism is vile and appalling but most people in Britain are not racist. In fact, we must be more welcoming than many countries or refugees wouldn't be risking their lives to cross the channel in tiny boats to claim asylum here. After all, they pass through many safe countries before they get here! And please can people stop equating voting for Brexit with xenophobia? I know loads of Brexiteers of all ages (many being wary of telling others how they voted because of anticipated backlash). Some of us are offering temporary homes to Hong Kongers and personally we have friends from all over the world. We are not xenophobic!

roders · 13/07/2021 19:39

apologies :)

ArtMill2010 · 13/07/2021 19:44

I'm not ashamed to be English, I'm ashamed that THEY are English.

I'm ashamed of our politicians who enabled it.

I'm proud of myself and my history.

I'm proud of all those who covered Rashfords's mural with messages of love.

And I'm proud of the team. They have showered themselves in glory on and off the pitch, for once footballers who are also role models, especially Rashford for obvious reasons and Mings for unashamedly calling out Patel's BS.

So to the OP, I see your point, but there is more to be proud of, let's take the spotlight back from the morons and shine it on the Southgates, Rashfords and Mings of the sport.

jskei · 13/07/2021 19:53

If al-Qaeda were recruiting in those terraces the police would be undercover in minutes taking photos, video evidence, and arresting the lot of them before they got on a plane. They'd go to jail for long periods because we wouldn't accept anything less. It wouldn't be long before it stopped.

But we don't do that do we? Instead we keep trotting out the its "just a few bad apples", or OP etc are left wing UK hating crazies, and my favourite fake outrage; "I'm shocked..shocked..being lumped in with these thugs."

This has been going on for DECADES .... and we've done nothing about it. Few bad apples eh? No - Its the silent complicity of the defensive majority that allows this to continue.

It tells us Britain doesn't have as much of a problem with racism, as does with the people who call us all out on it.

Peagreensoup · 13/07/2021 20:04

So, here’s the thing. My husband and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary tomorrow.

I have taken the day off work to do something together but he has booked in our daughter to take her to the city for a day of art galleries, lunch, and daddy-daughter time.

And then in the evening he has organized us to take our friends out to supper. Lovely friends. They have just hosted our son for two weeks in Greece on holiday! Amazing holiday, but is now the time to say thank you to them?

I think he’s killing two birds with one stone. Our wedding anniversary with a thank you supper.

Am I overacting to be upset? Should I praise his thriftiness? Anyone else had wedding anniversary stories like this? Happy endings?

FloconDeNeige · 13/07/2021 20:09

Thank you and good night.

Scottsy100 · 13/07/2021 20:16

YABU, the minority does not represent the majority but it always the minority that gets focused on, there are people like that in every nation unfortunately no other countries are complete saints, these douches do not speak for me and yes I am still proud to be English

Willow03 · 13/07/2021 20:20

The football was on too late so people spent all day Sunday drinking before the game. It should have been on at 3pm like it always used to be. Its all for TV rights!

Localocal · 13/07/2021 20:25

Don't be ashamed to be English. Those assholes are not the majority and have been roundly condemned.

user1468761869 · 13/07/2021 20:26

On the contraary, I think we are clearly making progress as a lot more people are now calling it out. Normally victims of racism are expected to keep quiet about their experience and called 'race baiters' if they bring up the issue. I don't think we need to feel embarrased, the young men of the football team itself make us proud.

marktayloruk · 13/07/2021 20:27

I blame Southgate myself. Players who miss penalties should however expect to be booed. I know I couldn't do it but I'm a fat 62-year-old not a fit highly paid Premier League footballer!

FootballisgoingtoRome · 13/07/2021 20:28

@Willow03

The football was on too late so people spent all day Sunday drinking before the game. It should have been on at 3pm like it always used to be. Its all for TV rights!

It’s always on in the evening for this tournament. It’s been that way for always. Should they have changed the time for the rest for the world because English hooligans can’t be trusted ? It should have been held in a different country then .

HmmmmmmInteresting · 13/07/2021 20:34

@marktayloruk

I blame Southgate myself. Players who miss penalties should however expect to be booed. I know I couldn't do it but I'm a fat 62-year-old not a fit highly paid Premier League footballer!

I guessed you were before you described yourself

restingbitchface30 · 13/07/2021 20:47

I was feeling the same until I saw the wonderful messages left at the Marcus mural near me. I took a visit there and it was beautiful. It has been repainted. Hate never wins. For every nasty person there are hundreds of wonderful people

Buccanarab · 13/07/2021 20:48

Having said that, the majority are making their voices heard. Hopefully the tide is turning and some people will start to feel less comfortable spouting their bile.

As this thread demonstrates the second anyone tries to highlight that England has an issue with racism/violence/thuggery etc the masses jump to deflect with cries of "it's worse over there" or "it's only a minority".

Combine that with the fact that social media makes it easy for them to find their own little echo chambers, and leads to them thinking anyone who speaks out against them are just part of the "looney left" or whatever, then there's no chance of things changing.

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 20:51

@restingbitchface30

Yes you're so right, hate never wins and there are far more good people than those filled with hate.

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 20:56

@restingbitchface30

Yes I agree

Nearly47 · 13/07/2021 21:03

I am not English although living in this country for a very long time and found myself in a position similar to yours failing to defend the indefensible as people from my country of origin always ask for me to comment on anything that goes wrong here. It was bad but I don't think that the racism situation is any better in Italy or most European countries. One of the reasons I believe the English get a bad name around the world is because you are the first to notice when things go wrong on that front what is a good thing.

sjacky594 · 13/07/2021 21:05

I'm extremely proud to be English. I'm proud of the way Gareth Southgate and the whole team accepted their defeat so graciously. I'm proud that they left their dressing rooms tidy and clean unlike the unruly Italians. I'm proud of the way they lifted our spirits after an horrendous 18 months. I am also proud of the way that the vast majority of the population repaid their spirit and hard work with a huge outpouring of love and support. A few unintelligent racist yobs do not represent the English. We are better than that.

Daffi · 13/07/2021 21:22

I think you will find it's a very English thing. One of the worst fan bases in the world

SherbrookeFosterer · 13/07/2021 21:30

Stop reading the news.

Everything is fine, mostly.

User135644 · 13/07/2021 21:45

@JustforMum

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. There was no violence against people on Italian streets and neither was there that sense of menace and threat (actual physical harm) that was so palpable at Wembley. It's true these yobs are a minority, but a minority big enough to have tainted England's football supporters in the eyes of many countries outside of the U.K.

I have generally really admired the English squad and all they stood for, but I thought the players who took their silver medals off as soon as they received them came across as poor sports (something British people are great at). That's wasn't a good look at all!
To our English friends and OP, I would say: if you want to feel great about your country again, replay the Olympic Opening Ceremony of London 2012. That truly was a celebration about everything that is great and good about Britain and England and something to feel proud of. And yes, I am Italian!

The main takeovers from the tournament for England:

Fans - an absolute national disgrace. The laser at the Denmark goalkeeper, the booing of the national anthem, the booing of the players taking the knee, storming the gates in the final without tickets, drunken yobs throwing bottles in the streets.

Players: classless pricks who took their medals off straight away and didn't even stay to watch the presentation. Mention for Henderson and Phillips who did (two players with genuine class). And I appreciate Rashford and Saka would have been distraught after missing their pens.

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