So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

I don’t think people expressing anti-English sentiment is remotely comparable to the abuse women get for wearing the hijab.

My concern about anti-English sentiment is that it is a symptom that many people claim to be opposed to racism, while actually still being as hateful as they always were, it’s just they have found an acceptable group to say the hateful things about. This is most obvious with anti-semitism, which has ludicrously become acceptable among some on the left (and I am on the left!).

I would like us to both find solutions to the really pernicious forms of racism against people of the African diaspora and some Asian groups while also making it clear that hating any ethnicity is not okay, and we need to find solutions to the tribal instinct that makes people want to denigrate other groups.

I do agree with you Janiie.

I'm torn - between wanting to celebrate how far we HAVE come, and of us being reminded so often how far we still have to go.

'She hasn't said we are all white supremacists , she is sharing her experience of racism in this country , one which you have failed to acknowledge but yet again have replied with " what about them"'

It's called balance, it doesn't just happen England.

Walking round a predominantly western area in full niqab may sadly get some negative attention as walking round a predominantly strict Muslim country without a niqib might. That was my experience y'see. I do hope I'm allowed to share my experience. Shall I check with you next time?

Racism and xenophobia are not acceptable. Previous posters should stop condemn one while encouraging and applauding the other.

@redcarbluecar

The most depressing thing about this country is the government, and its populist compliance with prejudice and narrow mindedness. Elsewhere there's plenty to celebrate.

Agree with you redcarblue, I am not a football follower but the actions of many players should be celebrated as those of decent human beings. Marcus Rasford in particular is remarkable for his actions to help the poorest children in society. It would have been undersatndable for him to wish to put a difficult childhood behind him and concentrate soley on his career but his school meals campaigns and other actions have done so much good and shamed the government. Mp Natalie Elphicke has withdrawn her comment criticising him. How is she and the whole government/parlaiment/ governing class not ashamed that feeding poor children in one of the world's richest nations is a political issue?

I'd be tempted to ask what is wrong with these people but I know. I was brought up in that kind of poverty 50 years ago so I have always known. It seems to me too many people forget all too easily.

It's not called balance , it's detracting from someone discussing their experience of racism.

@FlaminEckVera

…..which proves its better to remain silent than to show yourself up

@tomorrowalready I'd never heard of Natalie Elphicke till today. I get that she was posting in a private WhatsApp chat, but still find it surprising that a MP (who presumably represents a multi-ethnic community) would be prepared to express such a kneejerk, narrow-minded opinion in a place where it could quickly be screenshotted and shared.
I really feel for Marcus Rashford. Regardless of his social campaigning, he's a footballer, and that penalty miss must have felt really gutting. He hadn't even played much in the tournament itself (& came on very, very late in the game) , so hasn't even got any brilliant performances to console himself with - his Euro 2020 will be remembered for that miss. That is really harsh.

'really feel for Marcus Rashford. Regardless of his social campaigning, he's a footballer, and that penalty miss must have felt really gutting'

He is brilliant bloke, those that missed will be devastated.

They did so well though. Time for another flag wave 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿.

@JaniieJones @IcedPurple I'm sorry you if my reporting of what I've heard abroad when people discuss the English seems Xenophobic, as if I'm delighting in hatred or lying. I'm honestly saying it as I've seen it. I simply didn't hear people say they hated or disliked the Welsh or Scottish. I heard people say this about the English many, many times and they make a clear distinction. Americans tend to lump all nations together but in my experience the average European knows the difference.

I do understand it's something you can't accept if you love England though. What I would add is that the over-riding sentiment I pick up towards the English (and especially during my years in France) is one of pity rather than hate. Other Europeans seem genuinely feel sorry for this country. They think the English are a bit pathetic in many ways. The obsession with a war that ended over half a century ago. A football team that cannot win anything. The slavish and embarrassing worship for an outdated monarchy. Now Brexit. It's all quite sad.

"It is racist whether or not it feels racist
The truth is our Prime Minister is a real racist
They say, "You should be grateful we're the least racist"
I say the least racist is still racist
And if somebody hasn't said it
Equality is a right, it doesn't deserve credit
Now if you don't want to get it, then you're never gonna get it
How the news treats Kate versus how they treated Megan
Rest in Peace Jack Merritt, you're my brother in arms
There's tears in our eyes and love in our hearts
We never had the same background, culture, colour, or past
But you devoted your life to giving others a chance
And for that, I'm so taken aback
Because it gave us all a voice, I have to say it for Jack
As a young black man seeing paper and crack
Giving tougher sentences, it's just papering cracks
All he would want is unity, funding for communities
Equal opportunities, people under scrutiny
No more immunity, way less hatred
More conservation, less deforestation
We want rehabilitation, now that would be amazing
But Grenfell victims still need accommodation
And we still need support for the Windrush generation
Reparations for the time our people spent on plantations
I'm done"

There was lots of praise for this when Dave performed at the Brits last year. As Dave says, the least racist are still racist.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

I love reading all the defensive responses.

#NAEALT 🤣

THIS

Sorry about bits appearing clicky
I copy and pasted wrong

[quote Eastie77]**@JaniieJones* @IcedPurple* I'm sorry you if my reporting of what I've heard abroad when people discuss the English seems Xenophobic, as if I'm delighting in hatred or lying. I'm honestly saying it as I've seen it. I simply didn't hear people say they hated or disliked the Welsh or Scottish. I heard people say this about the English many, many times and they make a clear distinction. Americans tend to lump all nations together but in my experience the average European knows the difference.

I do understand it's something you can't accept if you love England though. What I would add is that the over-riding sentiment I pick up towards the English (and especially during my years in France) is one of pity rather than hate. Other Europeans seem genuinely feel sorry for this country. They think the English are a bit pathetic in many ways. The obsession with a war that ended over half a century ago. A football team that cannot win anything. The slavish and embarrassing worship for an outdated monarchy. Now Brexit. It's all quite sad. [/quote]
Oh god this goes on doesn’t it

As someone with French family, family round the world, I find your diatribe incorrect and more likely showing what you think.

Yes it is sad to feel as you do but hey ho

@Christinayangtwistedsister Thank you, I was just alluding to the "everyone hates us because we're English" mindset taking precedent over the actual systemic discrimination against minorities in this country, which seems to be happening on here.

Yes, Scottish people take cheap shots at the English, but is it seriously more concerning that the regular physical assaults, use of slurs and entrenched xenophobic attitudes that prevail here? You don't like being called roast beef, but my friend didn't like having her hijab ripped off in a shopping centre, I didn't like comforting my children after a child told one of them "your mum's a terrorist".

Anti- English sentiment seems to be something that is brought up every time there is a discussion of racism and xenophobia here, and seems a convenient way to embolden ignorance of English issues. The "they all hate us life is so unfair" mindset detracts from very real, very harmful prejudice taking place right under your noses.

@TotorosCatBus

"It is racist whether or not it feels racist The truth is our Prime Minister is a real racist They say, "You should be grateful we're the least racist" I say the least racist is still racist And if somebody hasn't said it Equality is a right, it doesn't deserve credit Now if you don't want to get it, then you're never gonna get it How the news treats Kate versus how they treated Megan Rest in Peace Jack Merritt, you're my brother in arms
There's tears in our eyes and love in our hearts
We never had the same background, culture, colour, or past
But you devoted your life to giving others a chance And for that, I'm so taken aback Because it gave us all a voice, I have to say it for Jack As a young black man seeing paper and crack Giving tougher sentences, it's just papering cracks All he would want is unity, funding for communities Equal opportunities, people under scrutiny No more immunity, way less hatred More conservation, less deforestation We want rehabilitation, now that would be amazing But Grenfell victims still need accommodation And we still need support for the Windrush generation Reparations for the time our people spent on plantations I'm done"

There was lots of praise for this when Dave performed at the Brits last year. As Dave says, the least racist are still racist.

I absolutely love this performance. I cried listening to it with m DD. So powerful.

We are hardly obsessed with a war, but we do remember its significance.
Thank God we do too. Lest we forget.

@JaniieJones

'She hasn't said we are all white supremacists , she is sharing her experience of racism in this country , one which you have failed to acknowledge but yet again have replied with " what about them"'

It's called balance, it doesn't just happen England.

Walking round a predominantly western area in full niqab may sadly get some negative attention as walking round a predominantly strict Muslim country without a niqib might. That was my experience y'see. I do hope I'm allowed to share my experience. Shall I check with you next time?

Racism and xenophobia are not acceptable. Previous posters should stop condemn one while encouraging and applauding the other.

And how would you feel if you were receiving ill attitude in that country whilst they proclaimed how wonderful and proud they were, and how the whole world is against them for no reason, knowing what it is actually like to experience life there?

The government has today announced they will be removing all Covid measures, including simple easy precautions like masks, from 19 July. They are actively following a policy that will kill and disable huge numbers of people. They know and acknowledge this.

It's a policy that reeks of disability discrimination, ageism... and potentially racism. They must surely be aware of the data showing which groups will be most heavily impacted.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/11/fears-black-people-bear-brunt-covid-third-wave-uk

'I do understand it's something you can't accept if you love England though. What I would add is that the over-riding sentiment I pick up towards the English (and especially during my years in France) is one of pity rather than hate. Other Europeans seem genuinely feel sorry for this country. They think the English are a bit pathetic in many ways. The obsession with a war that ended over half a century ago. A football team that cannot win anything. The slavish and embarrassing worship for an outdated monarchy. Now Brexit. It's all quite sad.'

Oh @Eastie77 you're so funny. Jealousy gets you nowhere 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

I don’t understand this idea that we are such a laughing stock

I’ve travelled a lot and not come across this. Anti American feeling absolutely and anti Saudi feeling but we are really not that significant

What I would add is that the over-riding sentiment I pick up towards the English (and especially during my years in France) is one of pity rather than hate. Other Europeans seem genuinely feel sorry for this country.

This is such a crock of shite. Again, there isn’t (generally) a distinction made between the English and the other home nations. I get that you with your nasty, xenophobic attitude really, really want to tar others with your own brush and pretend that there is, but there isn’t.

And the rest of the pathetic diatribe further reveals your true colours. Don’t put your hatred into other people’s mouths.

Sounds great. Sounds like it's a white person problem

If you think people of other races aren't just as racist as white people you are very naive.

Lots of people are shit. More (I hope) are fairly decent. It's a worldwide issue and I refuse to be ashamed of the country I have lived my whole life it because of the actions of a minority.

@JaniieJones

'I do understand it's something you can't accept if you love England though. What I would add is that the over-riding sentiment I pick up towards the English (and especially during my years in France) is one of pity rather than hate. Other Europeans seem genuinely feel sorry for this country. They think the English are a bit pathetic in many ways. The obsession with a war that ended over half a century ago. A football team that cannot win anything. The slavish and embarrassing worship for an outdated monarchy. Now Brexit. It's all quite sad.'

Oh @Eastie77 you're so funny. Jealousy gets you nowhere 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

@JaniieJones why would I be jealous? I mean I'm English too since I was born here so I'd be subject to the same pity and derision.

Ah. But I'm Black. So not really English. Just a guest here (and an unwelcome one at that) and jealous of my wonderful host country

@JaniieJones

'If you want to experience hatred, don a hijab for a week. That might offer a better experience of hatred, then you can think about how it ought to be dismantled. "Your England" isn't as rosy as you think.'

Likewise if I walked around Riyadh without a hijab and only an abaya I too would get side eyes and possible abuse. It's not ok but it certainly isn't only in England, the narrative that we're all white supremacists in this country is racist and offensive. We are one of the most diverse and inclusive.

No, we aren’t inclusive. That’s a fallacy.

XENOPHOBIA

dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.
"the resurgence of racism and xenophobia"

OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY