So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

@JaniieJones

'Most countries are fully cognizant of the difference between England and the other home nations and the English are disliked in a way the Welsh and Scottish are not. I find the Irish are universally liked everywhere.'

Bollocks. I've lived and worked abroad and this just is not true no matter how much you want it to be.

It seems so very ironic that people rightly object to racist abuse yet join in excitedly with xenophobic abuse.

People do seem keen to see this hatred. Not good

'This. Why is is acceptable for parents to teach their children to hate English people but not people of other races? To encourage their children to jeer at an England football loss? '

Exactly!

Just ridiculous and appalling double standards. 'No one likes the English' 🙄, it's pathetic.

Anyway, well done England! You did us and yourselves proud (no I don't think they read mumsnet that was purely for the xenophobes who should pal up with racists and sneer away together. Ugh)

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@Secondbellini

Fairy cakes, yes I do believe it. You can look at research, international opinion polls etc.

@JaniieJones Sorry it is true :)

some brilliant whatsApp going around!! that's not fact, that's you enjoying the hatred that England gets, the double standards and hypocrisy in these threads is something else..

This. Why is is acceptable for parents to teach their children to hate English people

So depressing isn’t it. Passing down hatred

I glad that so are speaking out

This wouldn’t happen so much in many other countries but it shouldn’t happen at all

I’m saddened that we even have to have this conversation

Twitter has deleted 1000 tweets it’s a joke they can do a lot lot more. Let’s hope more are named and shamed and banned from their clubs

Yes well done lads! So proud of you all!

@ApplyWithin

It seems so very ironic that people rightly object to racist abuse yet join in excitedly with xenophobic abuse

This. Why is is acceptable for parents to teach their children to hate English people but not people of other races? To encourage their children to jeer at an England football loss? Why is this ok? From people who have made their home in England and whose children are English-born and educated? Just baffling to me. Why on earth live in a country you hate so much?

Racism is wrong.
Xenophobia is wrong.

You can’t be aghast at one but accept the other.

100% I'm still shocked after being out at a pub in Scotland last night. The xenophobia was very apparent.

Wonderful post blessex

Why do we let a few ruin it for the rest, it’s not the English, it happens across the world. I am sure if the Italians had lost they would not have been much better. Yes there were thousands of abusive comments but equally millions are proud of what the team achieved.

But this thread is not about whether or not racism is a problem in England. I think most people would agree that it is. It's poster asking if she's being unreasonable to be ashamed to be English because of the behaviour of a minority.

Exactly. The fact that there are racists and thugs in every country, and more in some other countries than in England, does not make it acceptable here. That doesn't make it ok for even one English person to be racist. But why be ashamed of your nationality on the basis of how a minority behaves? On that basis, literally every person in the world should be ashamed of their nationality, because they all have some terrible people. Why not just be ashamed of the terrible people? And be ashamed of your government if it does not do enough to combat racism and thuggery.

Hatred because of nationality or race is never okay

You said it perfectly.

I'm sorry if you have suffered from any anti English feeling. However the coverage of this tournament has been ridiculous from a Scottish point of view or even from a football fan point of view. I've watched every single match. Pre match analysis, half time analysis, post match analysis of any match... discussion of England team always included

I get that, but in 2016 when England had an early exit and Wales got to the semi final, there was a huge amount of analysis of Wales and their progress. The comparison would be if two home nations progressed and the BBC only covered one nation - I don’t think it’s ever happened so I can’t say for sure but I would be surprised if only England got the attention (assuming they were one of the 2 who progressed far, which they might not be!)

Thoroughly ashamed.

@IcedPurple

The "whataboutery" on this thread is both sad and predictable. Black people in this country can't complain about racism because other countries are so much worse . So many offended White people feel the need to lecture us on this subject (how dare you criticize England? Dontcha know those poor Black people in country x are suffering?) it's almost comical.

But this thread is not about whether or not racism is a problem in England. I think most people would agree that it is. It's poster asking if she's being unreasonable to be ashamed to be English because of the behaviour of a minority. In that context, it's quite reasonable to point out that England is not at all exceptional when it comes to racism. Pretty much every country has similar, if not worse, problems, so being 'ashamed' to be English for that reason makes little sense.

As for the "united in hatred" subject: again, I'm simply retelling what I have seen and heard. I did not say I think the hatred is acceptable or a good thing.

You also didn't say that it was a bad thing. I've a feeling that if it were English people 'mingling' and 'united in hatred' of some other country, you would be quite explicit in condemning it. But you have not done so here.

I think hatred is terrible in whatever form it takes.

Friends DD at school who has Italian descent and surname had two boys being awful today

My DD said a girl in her class got flack as well

This is really bad

@NiceGerbil

Friends DD at school who has Italian descent and surname had two boys being awful today

My DD said a girl in her class got flack as well

This is really bad

It's taught at home, they are taught to hate

England need to be banned from the next Euros as a consequence of the disgraceful behaviour of their fans through this tournament and the lack of security at Wembley to control rampaging mobs.

This has to be the last time England host a male football tournament.

It's taught at home, they are taught to hate

Not always.

Some nasty buggers with lovely parents join groups who indoctrinate them into ways of thinking.

It really doesn't always come from home. Just like murderers don't always have bad parents.

'Have to admit that I do find it amusing that so many people are upset about this'

I'm not 'upset' by it. I am pointing out to say 'Most countries are fully cognizant of the difference between England and the other home nations and the English are disliked in a way the Welsh and Scottish are not' is not acceptable. We don't say people are 'disliked' because of where they come from do we? Well you clearly do, as I say racists and xenophobes behaviour is depressingly similar. Shame on you.

@SlipperyDippery

I'm sorry if you have suffered from any anti English feeling. However the coverage of this tournament has been ridiculous from a Scottish point of view or even from a football fan point of view. I've watched every single match. Pre match analysis, half time analysis, post match analysis of any match... discussion of England team always included

I get that, but in 2016 when England had an early exit and Wales got to the semi final, there was a huge amount of analysis of Wales and their progress. The comparison would be if two home nations progressed and the BBC only covered one nation - I don’t think it’s ever happened so I can’t say for sure but I would be surprised if only England got the attention (assuming they were one of the 2 who progressed far, which they might not be!)

But Wales did progress in this tournament and got scarcely any analysis compared to England at the same stage.
Last night's pundits on the BBC: Gary Linekar, Rio Ferdinand, Alan Shearer and Frank Lampard. Any Italian insight from an Italian? Nope. We had Klinnsmann talking to Gabby Logan pitchside.

@JaniieJones

'Have to admit that I do find it amusing that so many people are upset about this'

I'm not 'upset' by it. I am pointing out to say 'Most countries are fully cognizant of the difference between England and the other home nations and the English are disliked in a way the Welsh and Scottish are not' is not acceptable. We don't say people are 'disliked' because of where they come from do we? Well you clearly do, as I say racists and xenophobes behaviour is depressingly similar. Shame on you.

Also, in what way are the English 'disliked' but the Welsh, Scots and Irish not?

Your average French person is unlikely to have formed that opinion (if indeed they do hold that opinion) based on extensive in person interactions with people from each of the 4 nations. So this alleged opinion is likely based on prejudice and stereotyping.

And yes, I guess it's normal to have 'generalised' opinions about foreign nationalities, but to be 'united in hatred' of them sounds extreme.

Any Italian insight from an Italian? Nope.
We had Klinnsmann talking to Gabby Logan pitchside.

Not sure how you could have missed Alessandro Nesta standing right beside him.

Or Alex Del Piero being interviewed for the semi-final.

Both Italians as far as I am aware.

'England need to be banned from the next Euros as a consequence of the disgraceful behaviour of their fans through this tournament and the lack of security at Wembley to control rampaging mobs.'

Sighs.

Wembley should have had more security and organisation in place.

Some football fans of all nationalities behave appallingly. Didn't thousands of Scots descend on London without tickets? Sturgeon would've had a right strop if England fans had rampage through Scotland.

Some people behave badly.