So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible with whataboutery

I'm getting really sick of this 'whataboutery' slogan. Like in the example above, people just think that can throw out the phrase 'whataboutery' without mounting any sort of argument at all, and that means they have WON.
You don't win arguments through slogans. You actually have to put the hard thought into mounting a good case and presenting it convincingly.

I think the inability to say anything positive about the country people live in will be problematic for the left.

It’s a shame as I’d like them to be stronger. I hope it changes and they begin to sell something a bit better than we’re all thugs, racists and whatever else.

The left have been strong before but it was very positive. Feels very circular and self hating atm

But on what basis @Meraas? Because I have read the whole thread and am struggling to recall when people have not called out the racism?

They would have done well, as Kane and McGuire and Grealish and Shaw etc are very good. But the young black players are very good too.

Four players....sounds like they would have smashed it!

@Mamamia7962

Youarestillintherunning - What did you do last night that you're ashamed of?

Yes I wonder

Why does she have to do anything?

Who is she?

I am Scottish 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿born and bred but moved to England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 When I married. Not a football fan but did watch. Not good for high blood pressure.
I think it sad that people have to resort to this. Don’t we all need some cheer in our lives in these challenging times?

@j712adrian

The people on here who aren't ashamed of being English for the disgusting behaviour seen are the reason why the team takes the knee for BLM. Why, even the Sky Team and Martyn Tyler were attacked and hounded out of their studio at Wembley.

ODFOD.

@Meraas

Why does she have to do anything?

Likely including herself in the mega shame and embarrassment she feels today

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque - are you confusing boorish with irony?

So, what will you specifically be doing to combat the cause of your crippling embarrassment? Anything at all? Or just hand wringing?

I just don't get this. Do you instantly act on every single thought and source or feeling of malcontent in your life?

Why 'hand wringing'? We're talking about reactions to overt racism. Why the attempt at belittling?

This kind of reductive crap is so pointless, imo.

YABVVU

Most people do not behave like that. All countries have an element of this. Have you never seen the problems countries such as Russia have with some very violent fans etc etc.

A lot of the online racism is generated abroad and uses fake accounts - some really do love to cause trouble in the pursuit of their aims and many people such as yourself then assume it is the English and the English alone. It isn't at all.

Fight back - report any racist posts or behaviour seen, call it out. The one individual that shone a laser beam has been caught - there were 60,000 fans there that didn't shine a beam, were not racist etc.

We are not a laughing stock. We have high standards of equality and although not perfect and areas need lots of improvement it is vastly better than many, many nations.

They are a MINORITY in a country of millions do not use stereotypes and prejudice to assume we are all the same - WE ARE NOT.

‘Would they have even qualified?’

I really don’t understand this. Are you imagining some kind of dystopian nightmare with apartheid where nobody of immigrant descent (a quarter of the population of Liverpool are of recent Irish descent for a start) is allowed to participate in Sport, or some kind of England where there was no immigration for the last 900 years?

Either way we would presumably have put all the youth training resources into other players and given the popularity of Football, probably qualified.

The implication of all these we wouldn’t qualify posts are that countries which for various reasons are less ethnically diverse (South Korea for example) should just be written off because only diverse countries can play football.

Which is racism.

@Mamamia7962

Youarestillintherunning - What did you do last night that you're ashamed of?

Exactly this. ^ Saying that everyone who is English should be ashamed of it because of a minority of racist thugs, can do one. How dare they tar us all with the same brush?

I have done nothing to be ashamed of, and neither has any white, English person I know, so DFOD.

@j712adrian

The people on here who aren't ashamed of being English for the disgusting behaviour seen are the reason why the team takes the knee for BLM. Why, even the Sky Team and Martyn Tyler were attacked and hounded out of their studio at Wembley.

The miscreants are criminals who should be brought to justice. Of course, they're also the reason for why the players felt nervous taking the kicks - because they knew what the consequences of missing would be. The players were right.

It doesn't make sense to be ashamed to be English because of the behaviour of some assholes who happen to be of the same nationality. Those of us who are reasonable decent human beings are not responsible for them whatsoever.

Yup, and it's the reason I'm glad we live abroad

@j712adrian

The people on here who aren't ashamed of being English for the disgusting behaviour seen are the reason why the team takes the knee for BLM. Why, even the Sky Team and Martyn Tyler were attacked and hounded out of their studio at Wembley.

The miscreants are criminals who should be brought to justice. Of course, they're also the reason for why the players felt nervous taking the kicks - because they knew what the consequences of missing would be. The players were right.

Yes, racism exists because I'm not ashamed of being English.

I refuse to feel shame for something that I'm not involved with. Anger and disgust towards those people? Absolutely. Ashamed of my nationality, something that I have absolutely no control over? Nah.

I don't think I've ever been proud to be English.

@Legomania

Oh op get over yourself. By all means be angry at the scum that behave like that but this self-flagellating is just tedious.

This x 1000.

They would have done well, as Kane and McGuire and Grealish and Shaw etc are very good. But the young black players are very good too.

^

Why even differentiate??

It's stems from that

More bullshit by people who appear to be determined to talk down their own country. Do us all a favour and go live somewhere else if you hate England so much.

I did, years ago, haven’t been back for almost 20 years, and don’t regret a thing

@notlikethisreally

Stop trying to defend the indefensible with whataboutery

I'm getting really sick of this 'whataboutery' slogan. Like in the example above, people just think that can throw out the phrase 'whataboutery' without mounting any sort of argument at all, and that means they have WON.
You don't win arguments through slogans. You actually have to put the hard thought into mounting a good case and presenting it convincingly.

There are no winners in this argument . It sad that you seem to think that . We will never win against racism and thuggery until we call it out . Saying it happens worse in other countries is whataboutery. No racism and thuggery is not an exclusive problem to England. But it is a massive problem in England . Sweeping it under the carpet as others are worse helps no one .

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

A lot of the racism was from organised political gangs abroad trying to divide us.

They will not succeed.

Any evidence for this claim?