So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

Should Rashford, Saka and the other one who missed their penalty whose name escapes me be embarrassed to be English today?

Should they be ashamed to call themselves English because they were trying to do their best and a small minority of other English people weren't happy with the results.

Anyone who is ashamed to be English because of these incidents needs to stop and think for a moment. Every country on the planet harbours racists, thugs reside the world over. Some confront it and are aghast at what their fellow countrymen say and do (eg the English), in other countries it is tolerated, ignored and occasionally state-sponsored.

Most of all - we are responsible for our actions and those of our children. We are not responsible for things someone we've never met at lives hundreds of miles away did.

Anyway, racism and vandalism are hardly the biggest things to worry about. I'd be more likely to feel ashamed if a massive paedophile or successful serial killer was found living in my country.

@FootballisgoingtoRome the 38% stat is from 2018, no-one has collated any since then as domestic violence isn't something a lot of people talk about, and there isn't funding for sufficient support out there. I don't think these men though only abuse their partners when England are playing, I think it's exasperates it, but violent men are the issue, and it's an issue everyday and not just when the football is on. Again, violent men are the problem, are we all seeing a pattern here?

I'm ashamed to be lumped in with those thuggish English people who think it's entertaining to boo other teams' anthems or every time they kick the ball. Or who love getting into fights. Or who racially abuse players on Twitter. Or who think everyone is jealous of us because we're English .

I wish I wasn't associated with them. I really do. And I'm afraid I think Brexit showed that it's a much bigger proportion of the country than I realised.

However, I don't know anyone who would behave like that. The vast majority of people I know are appalled by the behaviour of these 'fans', and that includes the football fans I know online through the club I folllow.

I do think every country has thugs, but I also think that it's much more socially acceptable here, and encouraged by the tabloid press in a way that doesn't happen in other countrIes. I'm just astounded that people can go through the entire school system without learning manners and respect for others.

Having said all that, I refuse to let thugs spoil it for everyone else. Just because there's a minority who ruin it, doesn't mean I'm going to stop supporting my team. That would just be playing into their hands.

If I had a relative who's a criminal, doesn't mean I've done something wrong, and it's the same principle. I've been on Twitter arguing with the boo boys. If we all push back, we'll win this cultural war.

@Sakura7

Isn't that just par for the course though?

Booing of an opponent's national anthem is absolutely not par for the course. You didn't hear much of it at this tournament unless England were involved. A significant proportion of the English fanbase have absolutely no respect for other nations and feel superior to them. And they wonder why nobody wants to support them.

It's a minority, sure, but it's a significant one and they sure as hell get themselves noticed.

Just like to say i was at the Italy v Spain semi final.... and there was a huge amount of booing/whistling all through the Spanish national anthem.....

Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here.

Exactly, the minimising and whataboutary on this thread is the epitome of the racism, xenophobia and jingoism in this country.

Wow @ChainJane you actually believe that racism isn’t a big thing to worry about wow just wow. I’m actually speakless.

You said you lived in England, you didn't say you were English.

And before you accuse me of racism, I mean to clarify that friends of mine who also live in England do not class themselves as English.

"Our problems " eh?

Our problems, like having a football team to be proud of??

@HmmmmmmInteresting

Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here.

Exactly, the minimising and whataboutary on this thread is the epitome of the racism, xenophobia and jingoism in this country.

You don’t know the meaning of the word whataboutery I don’t think

Just have a look at the Irish team and fans, thats how to behave, they are well respected and weclomed into every country!

Anyway, racism and vandalism are hardly the biggest things to worry about. I'd be more likely to feel ashamed if a massive paedophile or successful serial killer was found living in my country

There are few bigger problems to worry about than racism

@fairycakes1234

Just have a look at the Irish team and fans, thats how to behave, they are well respected and weclomed into every country!

Best fans ever! 🥰 🇮🇪

The video of English supporters attacking Italian fans including getting one on the ground and then 3 men were kicking him was awful

On Wembley ground and before the match FFS (I don't think I got the wrong end of the stick there).

The BBC don't have that clip from what I can see and their reports seem not to take mention that aspect, more vandalism and the police being there.

Hooliganism appears to be back. Yay.

Racism exists in every country. I’ve lived in other European countries & some of them are decades behind England in their awareness of racism & steps to tackle it. England on the whole, in comparison to some other countries is a more open, tolerant place to live. Fact!!!

I agree OP. To those criticising you ...well no s*&% Sherlock of course our British boorishness isn't inherent but it sure as hell is bred into us.

So much so we cannot even have an honest conversation about our behaviour, selfishness and little Englanding without the "glad to be British" defence popping up.

We've been taught this jingoistic crap for so long we can't see our lunch being eaten by so many other's as the things we defined ourselves by - NHS / Schools/ Openness / BBC/ Standards are crumbling away.

Glad to br British yes... but there's an awful lot of nasty a-holes here and while so many of us are busy wrapping ourselves in a tired old flag, they're bringing the lot of us down with them.

Why would anyone be ashamed by a stranger's behaviour, that's just daft.

@CeliaJ

You may feel ashamed to be English but, if the number of people trying to get into the country is anything to go by, this is still the best country in the world in which to live.

This kind of arrogance really doesn't help. FYI the latest survey on the best countries in the world to live in can be found here:

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-countries-to-live-in

Back on point, normal decent English people are obviously not responsible for the actions of the nasty element of the England fanbase. However I do think it's really important that the problem is taken seriously and real action is needed to stamp it out. That needs proper societal support and governmental support, which sadly seems to be lacking.

Why do men go to football just to boo? So immature.

‘I've been on Twitter arguing with the boo boys. If we all push back, we'll win this cultural war.’

No idea what a boo boy is, but anyone getting into arguments on Twitter is the culture war.

Most people do not care about any kind of culture war. It is just a small group.

I'm proud of our footballers.

Beats me how these "fans" obtain tickets! Just how? We apply every time and aren't even successful in the rugby ballots. Maybe they should only sell the next lot to women and children who are a lot less likely to cause bother.

@jskei

I agree OP. To those criticising you ...well no s*&% Sherlock of course our British boorishness isn't inherent but it sure as hell is bred into us.

So much so we cannot even have an honest conversation about our behaviour, selfishness and little Englanding without the "glad to be British" defence popping up.

We've been taught this jingoistic crap for so long we can't see our lunch being eaten by so many other's as the things we defined ourselves by - NHS / Schools/ Openness / BBC/ Standards are crumbling away.

Glad to br British yes... but there's an awful lot of nasty a-holes here and while so many of us are busy wrapping ourselves in a tired old flag, they're bringing the lot of us down with them.

Why do you align yourself with the bad?

I disagree it’s bred into all of us. Maybe the people you know?

@Secondbellini

‘I've been on Twitter arguing with the boo boys. If we all push back, we'll win this cultural war.’

No idea what a boo boy is, but anyone getting into arguments on Twitter is the culture war.

Most people do not care about any kind of culture war. It is just a small group.

People who boo at match, who cause trouble, who are offensive on social media. It's not exactly a phrase I've made up.

I don't think ignoring poor behaviour and language is the solution, I think that is part of the problem.

You might not care about how other people behave, you also cannot claim to be speaking for everyone.

The NHS is something the U.K. is proud of, although I wouldn’t say Englishness because what about Nye Bevan?!

I don’t think schools or the BBC have got much to do with Englishness.

@MarshaBradyo - couldn't agree more. It certainly hasn't been bred into me or my family. Or indeed any of my friends.

Racism even exists and is tolerated on the left leaning Mumsnet, what hope for the rest of the country? I have none.

Yes I have no doubt that it happens in other countries . But it’s the 38% rise in our County when England lose that we need to not ignore. Children go hungry in other countries and die of hungry . Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t focus on ending child poverty here because it’s worse elsewhere . Minimising what happens with hooligans here because it’s worse elsewhere is whataboutery and part of the problem .

Some media reporting suggests it's just English men behaving like Neanderthals. I'm not suggesting that violence by non-English men makes the violence by English men less appalling but if a group of people should be ashamed, it should be men not English people.