To ask questions about autism.

[coodawoodashooda]

About 10 years ago i was in a meeting about autism. The leader said something like, 'if the child could......... then they didnt have autism. What was the quality that was being referred to? Was it empathy? I cant remember and for various personal reasons id really like to know.

@x2boys

No not at all *@RicciTarr*

Oh good. I was worried there for a moment!

I completely respect your view point and I respect your opinion fwiw

I had an online date with someone the other week. Having previously observed a certain conversational precision, and noticing a complete inability to make eye contact when he turned up, within 5 minutes I asked him whether he was autistic. He said his diagnosis was ADHD, and that “they” had asked him if he kept his surroundings very tidy- “No? Oh, you can’t be autistic then” 😆. He then monologued for half an hour on the internal workings of his car- a conversation I enjoyed very much, being autistic myself

Thanks @x2boys. Likewise.

@Radio4ordie "100% agree as a parent of a child with ASD.
It’s upsetting to have people bandy these misconceptions around. My child is incredibly loving to us and kind if anyone in the family is ill or hurt, he might not notice if someone at school was upset but that isn’t the same thing as not having empathy."

Absolutely! My DD is on the long path for diagnosis. She shows me such (too much!) love, affection and care and obsession and control but I'm not sure this extends elsewhere....

I was by told by someone that my son doesn’t have autism as he has a sense of humour and can tell jokes!

My son was diagnosed with autism - and he is known for being really sharp and witty - it is a real strength of his!

Re the empathy thing- I had a terrible message today from a friend asking if I’d ever slept with her husband, because she’s discovered that he’s been unfaithful and now she seems to be asking loads of people, not knowing who to trust anymore. I felt physically sick for her, so I guess that counts as empathy. ( plus a bit indignant, if I’m honest. In common with the majority of autistic people I’m painfully honest and have pretty rigid morals, so sleeping with a married man is the last thing I’d do 🙄)

I’ve heard various versions of that phrase over the years.

20 years ago, a woman told me about finally getting her dc before an eminent psychologist who was an authority on autism who dismissed her in less that 2 minutes because her dc made eye contact. He had the most extraordinarily bushy eyebrows

My own gp reassured me that ds couldn’t have autism (he does) because he babbled at her so beautifully. He monologues at me now, just in better English.

The service gatekeeper who interviewed me about ds to decide whether he should be put forward for assessment didn’t believe he could be autistic because he demonstrated “joint attention”

I’ve heard that autistic people lack empathy countless times and I’ve known many who clearly are.

The amount of ignorance about autism in medical professionals is staggering.
eye contact and empathy are I think the two most popular misconceptions, all being on the spectrum comes a close third.
One of the NHS team that dxd my adult DD about 4 years ago said in all seriousness 'we are all on the spectrum'
A specialist physio told my adult DD that because she is autistic, the sensation she feels as pain is not pain, it's just a different sensation.

I like this explanation of the autistic spectrum.
neuroclastic.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/

So far, no-one's mentioned co-morbids. Autism often is not diagnosed alone, but it's often the primary diagnosis.

RickiTarr

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd. I feel very much that this is a box ticking exercise from the school's point of view. I can't fathom why he needs a diagnosis of anything to work out what skills he needs to practise.

@coodawoodashooda

RickiTarr

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd. I feel very much that this is a box ticking exercise from the school's point of view. I can't fathom why he needs a diagnosis of anything to work out what skills he needs to practise.

Thanks for explaining.

Schools don’t generally have a reputation for being proactive in that way, so if they think he warrants assessment, take it seriously.

OTOH, if you have a different theory to theirs, get him in front of someone who can look at all options.

Are the proposing he sees an Ed Psych or CAMHS?

Assuming you’re in the UK, my advice would be to go and see your GP, and tell them “The school thinks maybe ASC, I think maybe PTSD, but there is an issue manifesting as X, Y & Z behaviours or problems. Please refer him to CAMHS.”

BTW, @BlankTimes is completely right about comorbidities. Consider that too.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_comorbid_to_autism_spectrum_disorders

I can guarantee that whatever was said ten years ago will be wildly out of date now. Even three years ago my DC was refused an assessment as he could make eye contact. Was finally diagnosed recently.
As for empathy, he has more rather than less than other people.

@coodawoodashooda

RickiTarr

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd. I feel very much that this is a box ticking exercise from the school's point of view. I can't fathom why he needs a diagnosis of anything to work out what skills he needs to practise.

I spent my life feeling weird and struggling with certain things and because I didn't have a diagnosis, I blamed myself and suffered so much more than I would have done if I could explain why I was struggling. It would have made a big difference to me I think. It wouldn't have stopped me striving to achieve things in life but would probably avoided some of the stress and anxiety and impact on my self esteem and mental health.

I haven't read the whole thread but i'm sure it was imaginative play. I know this because my current 17yo DD who now has a diagnosis had sensory issues from around the age of 6 so 11 years ago and when looking for advice online to help with it it came up that it was closely linked with Autism but then reading the signs of Autism it said if they have imaginative play then it's not Autism. So I ruled it out and it was another 2 or 3 years later when she was still having issues that I looked into it again and this time the advice had changed for females!

Ok have caught up with OP's posts now and it seems you want to use the info from 10 years ago to rule out ASD which as I and others have pointed out is outdated now. The reason they say it is important for them to know is because otherwise they can feel that something is wrong with them and why aren't they "normal" but if they understand that their brain works a bit differently then they can understand the reason they are different and that it's ok. It won't be true for everyone though and some kids might be negatively affected by receiving the diagnosis.

@coodawoodashooda

Okay. And please dont be harsh on me if this is offensive, im not trying to be controversial but i really want to understand the benefit of a diagnosis. So, you remember there was a thread a few weeks ago about imposter syndrome? Basically everyone felt that we were all experiencing a sense of feeling odd or out of sorts from our community. I guess im saying, do we not all feel, 'odd' in our own way? I mean, how many people laughing at the in joke actually thought it was funny?

Take the 'feeling odd in some way' scenario and multiply that a hundred times in all sorts of different ways on a daily basis and you might just begin to start scratching the surface of what it's like.

Do you have to leave the house while someone else uses the vacuum cleaner because you absolutely can't stand the noise and it literally makes you feel like climbing the walls?

Are you infuriated by small talk and can't see the point, but force yourself to chat about the weather or someone else's grandchildren because you have learned that this is what is expected of you in that situation?

Have you trained yourself to gaze at the bridge of someone's nose rather than look them in the eyes because your parents and school teachers used to shout "Look at me when I'm talking to you" when you were a child?

Do you get frustrated if the teaspoons are not the same way round in the drawer and your family just don't understand why it is so important to you, no matter how hard you try to explain? And they think you are being ridiculous over it?

Does it take you 6 months to find a new pair of jeans because all the ones that you try on just feel wrong?

Have you spent the last 50 years wearing your socks inside-out because you can't stand the feel of the seam against your toes?

@coodawoodashooda

RickiTarr

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd. I feel very much that this is a box ticking exercise from the school's point of view. I can't fathom why he needs a diagnosis of anything to work out what skills he needs to practise.

School cant tick box your child into being diagnosed though. I would echo the poster who said to speak to your GP. If your child isn't autistic he won't meet the criteria for diagnosis, in fact it's unlikely he would even face a full assessment as the initial findings from school; home and the early developmental questionnaire would rule it out anyway. He could have PTSD and/or ASD though, and there are other possibilities too. GP first call.

@coodawoodashooda

RickiTarr

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd. I feel very much that this is a box ticking exercise from the school's point of view. I can't fathom why he needs a diagnosis of anything to work out what skills he needs to practise.

He may well have ptsd. But don't you see that the reason your ds isn't coping is because there might be something else going on as well? And that is what the school is trying to find out, so they can approach it in the right way and give him the support he needs.

You can learn coping strategies, but those coping stragies just mask the problem and will not cure someone with autism. There is no magic cure.

The school wants me to get my child assessed for asd. I am certain he has ptsd

You are assuming that going for an ASD assessment automatically means a diagnosis. That's not the case.
You are also assuming he could not have both ASD and PTSD whereas that's definitely a possibility.

Assessments are carried out by a team usually Paed, Ed Psych, OT and SLT. They are structured to see if autism has been present since early childhood and the child is assessed in at least 2 locations, often school for observation and at the Paed's office.
Assessments are thorough and IF a diagnosis is given, it will come with at least a summary of strengths and weaknesses (often expressed as a percentile chart) with recommendations and interventions to help that particular child.

Ask yourself why you are so resistant to an assessment as an option to pinpoint your child's needs. School have seen that he's experiencing difficulties in some areas and have suggested you take action to discover what can be done to help him.
Why do you feel that's not a good thing for your child?

Many parents who know their child needs support cannot even get a referral for assessment because their childrens' schools aren't as on the ball as yours. They would give their eye teeth to be in your position.

Blanktimes makes a valid point.

Dc had an assessment for autism, dyspraxia and dyslexia all of which came back negative.
He was given an ADHD and anxiety diagnosis.

Until your dc has an assessment you don't know what, if any, diagnosis your dc will be given.

But knowledge is always power.

BlankTeeth

I am certain my child's behaviour relates to domestic abuse. I am certain the option of asd diagnosis relates to a lack of understanding about domestic abuse. Respectfully, you know very little about our position.

toastandtea

I don't think that you can therapy the autism out of someone. I do think that therapy can help validate how you experience society and yourself. It can help you recognise your strengths and weaknesses. I dont see why that experience is so far apart from a diagnosis.

ahoyshipmates

No. We don't have to do anything like that.

It's a bit galling that you're ignoring every single person on this thread OP and going back to your "surely if you know you're shit at something, that's just as good as knowing why" position.