Two Child Limit

[MobilityCat]

Will you be affected? Campaigners have lost their legal challenge to the government's two-child limit on welfare payments.
They had argued the policy breached parents' and children's human rights. The Supreme Court dismissed their case.
The rule, which came into force in April 2017, restricts child tax credit and universal credit to the first two children in a family, with a few exceptions.
It was one of George Osborne's most debated austerity measures.
The policy has affected families of about one million children. Campaigners described the decision as "hugely disappointing".
Full story here www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57776103

While you are technically a single parent, the fact remains that your children have two parents. In this situation the onus should be on absent parents paying for their children, not the state supporting them on the absent parents behalf. There needs to be a much more stringent approach to this, forensic investigation into finances, cash in hand working, hidden assets etc , until people accept their responsibilities

I’ve been waiting over 12 years now. What do you propose I do in the meantime?

Well, total fertility rate is 1.6 and in a free fall. Roughly only 18% of women (down from 25% before the introduction of the limit) go on to have a third or more, so it's a bit of a moot point for majority of the people. Especially when you consider that almost half of women who had a birth of third order or more since then fall in the category where they, or their partner, earn over the child benefit limit.

Agree & I don't have a problem with people getting it. I only have 2 dc & don't qualify for any benefits.

I’ve had a lot of blood clots. So any hormonal method is truly out for me

I’m also allergic to latex. Which then stops me using anymore.

There’s also the non hormonal coil. Which Is pretty much all that’s left and non latex condoms.

But I can have my tubes tied for free on the NHS. Same for vasectomy on the nhs for free. There’s options.

But no one is stopping you from having as many children as you want, there is no two- child limit

My friend is struggling with this she had kids with a man who had a great job but he passed away and now she's raising 4 kids 2+(2 under 2 as twins) on hardly anything and can't get help with the 2 babies... Just there nappies along are costing her £15 a week and the formula is £60 a week as she can't BF... Thankfully she gets formula vouchers to help towards but its only £6 a week each which doesn't really dent it

The world is already hugely over populated, we shouldn't be paying anyone to have children IMO.

You can't look at that without addressing ageing populations & chronic conditions.

No-one is saying you cant have more than two children.

You can have as many as you like
But after two, You wont financially gain from the benefit system, so you have to pay for them yourself

I think the decision is right

They've had this for years though.

I can get that people think that people shouldn't be able to have as many children as they want irresponsibly when they can't provide for them. This is why the government brought in most of the measures they did; because it's the sort of thing the majority, which voted them in, wanted.

It's a bit blinkered to insist that everyone should be just like you.

And the fact is, children are born into these situations, whether there are benefits to help pay for them or not. So should we just shrug and say it's their bad luck that their parents can't afford to pay for them, so they will just have to suffer? That isn't my idea of a civilised society.

I agree

Where I live (US*) the 'rule' is that you are entitled to welfare for the number of children you have when you go on the program. But your grant isn't increased for any subsequent children. I think that's fair and it 'covers' larger families who fall on hard times.

After that, you're on your own. If you can't afford another child on your income then double/triple up on contraception or choose a permanent method and consider your family 'complete'. Many families would like more children than they have, but they regretfully decide that it's not in the cards financially and make contraceptive decisions accordingly. Life will go on.

*I realize the US programs and mindset is very different to the UK's as we don't really have a 'social safety net' like yours.

It's going to be very interesting when the plummeting fertility rate and the curbs on immigration catch up to Britain.

Oh don't worry, other similar threads often have posters saying we will just get new immigrants because they will be desperate to come 🤔

@coulditbecominghome

It's a bit blinkered to insist that everyone should be just like you.

And the fact is, children are born into these situations, whether there are benefits to help pay for them or not. So should we just shrug and say it's their bad luck that their parents can't afford to pay for them, so they will just have to suffer? That isn't my idea of a civilised society.

I agree

I agree too.

@coulditbecominghome

It's a bit blinkered to insist that everyone should be just like you.

And the fact is, children are born into these situations, whether there are benefits to help pay for them or not. So should we just shrug and say it's their bad luck that their parents can't afford to pay for them, so they will just have to suffer? That isn't my idea of a civilised society.

I agree

Getting pregnant and subsequently giving birth is not "bad luck", usually pregnancy occurs after unprotected sex, it has nothing to do with bad luck. Surely this is common knowledge 🤔

I think it’s wise of the government. Nobody’s saying you can’t have more than 2, just that you won’t get extra financial help to raise a 3rd. You literally ‘earn’ the right to have more than 2 by saving, living within your means and paying for the extra children.

I think it’s really selfish when people who rely heavily on government help go on to have 4 or 5 children (if it’s by choice). People (a minority) used to do it because your monthly payments increased, you were eligible for better housing etc.

Most people I know only have 1 or 2 and say they want to give their children a nice lifestyle, paying for a third would jeopardise that. Or mums often want to go back to work once the youngest is in school, not start all over again with a baby.

And the fact is, children are born into these situations, whether there are benefits to help pay for them or not. So should we just shrug and say it's their bad luck that their parents can't afford to pay for them, so they will just have to suffer? That isn't my idea of a civilised society.

This.

(No skin in the game - two higher rate tax payers in this house plus my user name gives how many children I have.)

@Whammyyammy why should the child suffer?

@Tal45

The world is already hugely over populated, we shouldn't be paying anyone to have children IMO.

We’re not. And never have.

It’s awful for the children who cannot choose to be born into a small family. Imagine growing up in poverty because your parents made bad choices and you, as a child, are punished? It’s insane.

It is insane & I don't see why the children should suffer. Plus where do you draw the line?

@coulditbecominghome

It's going to be very interesting when the plummeting fertility rate and the curbs on immigration catch up to Britain.

Oh don't worry, other similar threads often have posters saying we will just get new immigrants because they will be desperate to come 🤔

Yeah. That always makes me giggle

@SchrodingersImmigrant It's so ignorant & arrogant

How about fixing the child maintenance service? There must be so many children living in poverty because their absent parent is a dickhead.

@BrilliantBetty

I think they should go a step further and limit council housing and temporary accommodation to three bedrooms. And housing benefit to be limited to three bedroom rate too. If a family can't afford more (securely!) then don't have more. No reason councils should be forking out for unreasonably large properties because of individuals choices.

Council housing isn't just for people on benefits though? I only got my council house due to working full time.

@Nancydrawn

It's going to be very interesting when the plummeting fertility rate and the curbs on immigration catch up to Britain.

This exactly. We should be doing so much more in this country to support people to have families and make it affordable. The birth rate is falling in part because people are leaving it later and later, until they can afford all the things that go along with having children. In many cases they are just not bothering or find it’s actually too late. Tax credits are the tip of the iceberg. We should be thinking about affordable child care, housing etc.

@Ohhok

How about fixing the child maintenance service? There must be so many children living in poverty because their absent parent is a dickhead.

Was just going to make this point- change the law to go after the feckless men! And yes it is men!

I think they were starting to go down the right route.
We stopped at 2 (now 34&31) as even then we knew the world was changing but we did not know how much. We decided to support them through further education and DD is a science teacher 👩‍🏫 abroad. DS is an engineer in food 🥘 production.

Even before COVID the education and health systems were struggling and people were unable to get reasonable jobs hence the Gig economy .
Yes people can have as many children as they want but stop expecting other people to sub this.