Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

Your PwC anecdote reminds me of my then firm Arthur Andersen when we were approaching the year 2000. There was a heavily promoted change in corporate policy and we were all told to come dressed for the "new millennium". Except none of us (except the partners who were in the know) had a clue what it meant so came in our usual suits and apparently spoiled the big reveal...

It may have moved on in the last few years but the dress code for investment banking was smart suits for everyone and shirts/ties for men. Particularly if you had client meetings. My husband is a director for a large company in industry and schlepps around in the kind of clothing that would have been completely unacceptable in my job. Most of his colleagues wear jeans in the office. There are very different expectations of dress codes in different jobs.

@bhy123

Your PwC anecdote reminds me of my then firm Arthur Andersen when we were approaching the year 2000. There was a heavily promoted change in corporate policy and we were all told to come dressed for the "new millennium". Except none of us (except the partners who were in the know) had a clue what it meant so came in our usual suits and apparently spoiled the big reveal...

It may have moved on in the last few years but the dress code for investment banking was smart suits for everyone and shirts/ties for men. Particularly if you had client meetings. My husband is a director for a large company in industry and schlepps around in the kind of clothing that would have been completely unacceptable in my job. Most of his colleagues wear jeans in the office. There are very different expectations of dress codes in different jobs.

PwC dress down code in Australia was hilariously complicated - we reduced it down to “you can remove your tie if you want” - that was 20 years ago! People have got better at dressing smart casual for work but I’d go as far to say, it’s not even a thing anymore - our dress code is to dress appropriately for the occasion - it changes and relaxes all the time - currently I’d say broadly big presentation to a external CEO - probably a suit, lunch with a CEO smart casual, day in the office - whatever works for you. And no one is going to be impressed with a polyester blazer on any occasion! 😂

YANBU. I don’t have a problem with uniform but it should be comfortable and practical. It’s been great since they’ve been wearing sports kit to school on PE days. Totally uniform, easy to wash and not restrictive.

The only schools locally without ties, tartan skirts and blazers are the girls grammars. They manage to turn our great grades without these things.

I do find it strange that school uniform has got more strict and office wear has got more relaxed. Why does a 5 year old need a button up shirt and tie in case they join the army or become a pilot as an adult?

Uniform has got increasingly stricter since I went to school 40 years ago but another weird thing that has crept into state schools is branding - what the hell are we doing that we need competitive branding in state schools - why are we spending money on branding and not text books. And on textbooks, that cost $$$ and you have to buy yourself, our school refused to accept donations of textbooks that contained any annotations (not even heavily) - my kids would have happily accepted an annotated book to save buying a new one - such a waste of money and waste of the earth's resources - the schools are crying out for money yet they behave in some ways like they have it to burn!
The Academy Corporate PLC schooling model has some twisted priorities.

Tennisballboy - school uniform has become more ridiculous but the UK’s educational standards are falling behind. Some schools have got it so wrong.

@lazylinguist

Interesting. So is it caring enough to set high expectations that gets your state school students into Oxbridge, or is it upgrading the uniform to exclude poorer children and attract a different cohort?

No, definitely not excluding poorer children. A local academy trust creamed off the richer and threw out more challenging children. His schools were committed to enabling education of those living with disadvantage. All in very poor areas, all those taken on tended to be in special measures.

Uniforms weren’t expensive, but were strictly enforced - along with attendance. They were simply part of a new regime and new relationship with school package. Even his special schools have had quite strong uniform policy - but polo shirts/ sweatshirts rather than blazers and ties.

@Parker231

Tennisballboy - school uniform has become more ridiculous but the UK’s educational standards are falling behind. Some schools have got it so wrong.

And not just the schools - the Gov's league tables have not helped schools improve their priorities - how can you simultaneously look out for a child's mental health whilst putting extreme pressure on them to pass exams. The pressure on all (staff included) is relentless. A school that my Sil is a Governor for has recently announced they will no longer take part in the league table battle any more - they feel it causes the wrong incentives and is totally detrimental to their pupils education and well-being. It's a recent decision, I'm intrigued by the approach and impressed with their bravery.

LemonRoses - school uniform is expensive as it’s an unnecessary expense. It’s not a part of every day use and families are having to buy additional clothes which can only be worn at school.

If a pupil is at school 5 days out of seven, 40 weeks of the year, then the necessary uniform could possibly be argued to be in very frequent use - if not literally 'everyday'.

Not much clothing is 'everyday''...........:D

And I would say there are more inconsistencies and issues within the state school sector than the uniform. Would need a new thread.

Because my DT’s school didn’t have a school uniform, they wore their jeans in school and after school, weekends, holidays.
Much better to spend money on useful and practical clothes which can be wore any day and anywhere

I think schools should be obliged to provide the uniform. Employers with uniform have to.

There should be a set contribution for parents to pay, set by government and linked to minimum wage with a waiver for those on benefits and for multiple births, one of my last supply jobs had identical triplets, new uniforms must have cost a fortune.

An amount in year 7 and then a lesser amount for updating each year.

Schools would soon stop with the logoed uniforms, dry clean only and other ridiculous ideas.

Secondary school uniform code does my head in to be honest. Making a child wear a blazer during a heat wave is just cruel. Ours aren't even allowed to take them off on the way to or from school. Having logos on everything makes it incredibly expensive and the dread when they lose things as it costs so much to replace. The. The fact they don't cater to all body shapes makes things incredibly uncomfortable for a lot of students.

I don't mind the uniform but it needs to be relaxed. Kids will still push the boundaries even with a strict code. They also get bullied over the way they look as the uniform on some is just so unflattering.

Cannot forget the reception TA who wrote to all parents that the children should spend the Xmas holidays learning to taste buttons and if they didn't have an elasticated tie could they learn to tie it or get one.

My note to say that they had nothing to practice on except school uniform because children's clothes had moved on did not go well and if the staff had issues after PE might they consider a polo shirt for the infants rather than a collar and tie for 4 year olds.

Similarly when the head introduced a branded Jersey and switched to blue shirts/blouses rather than blue or white, my note about a professional dress code for staff when children were expected to wear a collar and tie (even in 80°) did not go well. I objected to staff rolling up for work in shorts and / shirts /skimpy sundress and flip flops when the children had to be formally dressed. Question of standards I thought.

And my DC are mid 20s now. It was utterly ridiculous and did nothing to encourage mutual respect. I was pro uniform too.

Suits for 6th form is the most bloody ridiculous thing ever.

Why not have them for freshers/1st year uni too?😂😂😂

Might help them learn ‘better’

What a joke.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Suits are a great idea for sixty form as they create a professional and mature working environment.

Years 12 and 13 are absolutely vital to DC’s futures and it is essential that they have a disciplined and focused mindset, which formal dress helps encourage.

@Parker231 I see your point - particularly when they're growing so fast, you don't often get much wear out of clothing before it's grown out of.

I think people clearly have different experiences, and ours is quite positive regarding uniform. I can see that the very rigid rules and aligned punishments in some schools are dreadful, bordering on the ridiculous, though.

Our sixth form is smart/casual - seems to work really well. Goes slightly out of the window in hot weather, but not a problem.

Students are working out what works and what doesn't, and school are fine with that.

It’s because there are some parents who will push and push the boundaries to the nth degree to accommodate their delightful offspring that schools have to be so prescriptive. If the school has laid out its expectations so clearly then the parents have the choice of either agreeing to what the school asks or finding another school.( Or as an alternative, getting a sad face photo in the DM in September when Chardonnay-Blue is given detention for refusing to take out the multiple piercings she had put in the week before in memory of her Nan’s dead dog. )

Last week I idly I looked at the website of the school where Emma Raducanu was a pupil, a state school with an extremely strict and detailed uniform code . Presumably the parents there must think restricting their children’s individuality, creativity and self expression through hairbobbles and holes in their ears between the hours of 9.00 and 3.30 daily is worth it because the school is hugely oversubscribed!

*GreenLakes

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Suits are a great idea for sixty form as they create a professional and mature working environment.

Years 12 and 13 are absolutely vital to DC’s futures and it is essential that they have a disciplined and focused mindset, which formal dress helps encourage*

I’ve taught at one of the countries top comprehensives for 25 years. Right at the top. Can’t put much more on due to fear of outing. But it’s been ‘Comprehensive if the Year’

The A level results frequently outstrip the 2 nearby private schools. It’s massively oversubscribed every year.

Students go onto to top universities year after year.

The 6th form wear jeans and casual clothes.

I can’t accept your post. My experience has proven otherwise.

[quote GreenLakes]@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Suits are a great idea for sixty form as they create a professional and mature working environment.

Years 12 and 13 are absolutely vital to DC’s futures and it is essential that they have a disciplined and focused mindset, which formal dress helps encourage.[/quote]
Many kids go to college now instead of sixth form at school and manage perfectly well both in further education and the 'professional working enviroment' without ever wearing a suit.
Re uniform, personally I would go for either basic supermarket uniform or what many retail staff wear (comfortable trousers and shoes, polo tops and hoodies in the school colours). I really think the govt should turn the guidance re affordable school uniform in state schools into law, seeing as so many schools seem to ignore it. This alone would help many poorer families.

Years 12 and 13 are absolutely vital to DC’s futures and it is essential that they have a disciplined and focused mindset, which formal dress helps encourage.

How narrow-minded! Why is it fine for them to wear whatever they like all through university then? Do you think top universities' results suffer from their students wearing jeans and tracksuit bottoms? Not to mention the fact that loads of kids go to 6th Form College, especially in areas where schools generally don't have 6th forms, and wear whatever they like there as well! I live near one of the best, most highly-regarded 6th FE Colleges in England. The students dress as they like and the college gets great results. Your comments don't actually bear much relation to reality, I'm afraid.

Why? Why any uniform at 6th form.

What about the ‘creatives’ who want to dress differently. What about any of them. Why wear a supermarket uniform?🤮

I got sent home from 6th form 25 years ago for dyeing my hair pink. I think it’s time we moved on from that tbh.

[quote GreenLakes]@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Suits are a great idea for sixty form as they create a professional and mature working environment.

Years 12 and 13 are absolutely vital to DC’s futures and it is essential that they have a disciplined and focused mindset, which formal dress helps encourage.[/quote]
Formal suits for school?

Fucking hell, that's one of the more stupid things said on this thread, and there has been a lot.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Pink hair would not be tolerated in either mine or DH’s workplaces. We are both in senior professional roles.

Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment.