Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

My husband with a longer teaching and headship history than yours would say differently. He chose to bring in stricter uniform standards in numerous under performing schools as one of many changes. He believes very much that it sets a different expectation.

Oh. One of those heads.

Stricter uniform standards are always the last resort of the type of head who brings nothing to the table.

In the absence of any actual ideas about how to inspire and lead, they mandate polyester blazers. Wonderful.

He chose to bring in stricter uniform standards in numerous under performing schools as one of many changes. He believes very much that it sets a different expectation.

Ah yes. I've met those kinds of Heads. And I've heard all kinds of 'We believe it sets a different expectation' propaganda. Empty words imo. What sets a different expectation is... actually having a different expectation, and establishing that through policies that make a real and practical difference to behaviour and teaching and learning, which hopefully was achieved through the other changes your husband made. I seriously doubt it was achieved through window dressing.

@TheKeatingFive

My husband with a longer teaching and headship history than yours would say differently. He chose to bring in stricter uniform standards in numerous under performing schools as one of many changes. He believes very much that it sets a different expectation.

Oh. One of those heads.

Stricter uniform standards are always the last resort of the type of head who brings nothing to the table.

In the absence of any actual ideas about how to inspire and lead, they mandate polyester blazers. Wonderful.

Completely agree - new uniform = tickbox (lack of) leadership!

LemonRoses - you mentioned your DC’s sixth form having to wear formal suits - why - even wearing a suit to work is becoming rarer.

What happens to children who can’t afford a suit - it’s not as if it’s going to have much use for other occasions.

@lazylinguist

What uniforms do:

Piss off teenagers
Make them uncomfortable with how they look
Perpetuate many teenagers' view of school as outdated, stuffy and irrelevant
Devalue genuinely important school rules
Create something else for teachers to tell kids off about
Make kids think that teachers care more about earrings or sock colour than education
Make students disbelieve schools' insistence that they're all about treating students as valued, unique individuals
Persuade some parents a school is good

What uniforms don't do:

Make students proud of being a part of their school and its ethos
Prevent bullying
Improve behaviour
Help learning

Such a great post! Reminds me of my parent's fear that not smacking my kids would make them unruly, spoilt and thoroughly unpleasant roughians - 10 years later my parents admitted my kids were lovely and didn't need to be smacked around the lugs to knock them into shape. We have lost the plot with kids - stupid rules do not create respect - they never did - in the past you were able to enforce them through fear of having the cane whip them into compliance and at what cost? We have progressed but we need more.

@Parker231

LemonRoses - you mentioned your DC’s sixth form having to wear formal suits - why - even wearing a suit to work is becoming rarer.

What happens to children who can’t afford a suit - it’s not as if it’s going to have much use for other occasions.

Our kids had to wear a suit to sixth form - pile of nonsense - school still had shit teaching but again - focus on the PR image and hope no one notices the quality lacking beneath - and leafy suburb so loads of tutoring going on at all levels. Ofsted haven't visited in at least a decade. School don't accept feedback when given - but send out silly questionnaires to tick boxes and tell us everyone is happy - when all the parent moan like shit and know the school is providing a poor education. The system is a joke.

@Parker231

LemonRoses - you mentioned your DC’s sixth form having to wear formal suits - why - even wearing a suit to work is becoming rarer.

What happens to children who can’t afford a suit - it’s not as if it’s going to have much use for other occasions.

They could definitely all afford suits. It was the requirement. Just as they continuing sport in sixth form was and wearing correct sports wear. My daughter has worn hers numerous times since for interviews and work. The blouses she wears still for work.

They could definitely all afford suits. Says it all really!

So the school uniform rules means that children from poorer families, families on benefits etc can’t attend.

@lazylinguist

He chose to bring in stricter uniform standards in numerous under performing schools as one of many changes. He believes very much that it sets a different expectation.

Ah yes. I've met those kinds of Heads. And I've heard all kinds of 'We believe it sets a different expectation' propaganda. Empty words imo. What sets a different expectation is... actually having a different expectation, and establishing that through policies that make a real and practical difference to behaviour and teaching and learning, which hopefully was achieved through the other changes your husband made. I seriously doubt it was achieved through window dressing.

Perhaps your experience, but he took a fair few RI and inadequate schools in challenging circumstances to outstanding and got many more children into Oxbridge and Russell Group from very hugely disadvantaged communities.

Window dressing opened many doors for many youngsters. It included not only uniform and learning to feel comfortable in more formal wear, but purchasing suits for interviews. They didn’t spend their time pulling at collars and fidgeting with ties because they’d become accustomed to wearing them.

Uniform doesn’t make a difference but caring enough to set clear expectations and give them a more equal playing field does. Much more important for poor children than the middle class children, who have experience of formal wear in other settings, perhaps.

Such a great post!

Thank you. I came gradually to being anti-uniform. I totally understand why it would be really hard for individual schools to ditch it though. It would be a risk setting yourself apart from other local schools when so many parents believe the hype about uniform.

It's interesting having teenage dc in the school where both dh and I work/have worked. It gives us insight into how the students view aspects of the school and policies which in some cases dh has implemented! My dc are bright, high-achieving, rule-abiding kids, but they despise petty rules and teachers who they see as over-zealous about them, and they think uniform is utterly pointless.

@Parker231

So the school uniform rules means that children from poorer families, families on benefits etc can’t attend.

Yes of course, that is how silent selection works. Not right, but not uncommon at all. A wool blazer with braid rather than a polyester one or a plaid skirt are frequent ways of ensuring the right cohorts.

Uniform doesn’t make a difference but caring enough to set clear expectations and give them a more equal playing field does. Much more important for poor children than the middle class children, who have experience of formal wear in other settings, perhaps.

Setting clear expectations, preparing kids for interviews - yes, absolutely. Experience of wearing formal wear? Nonsense. Again - how do you think all those European kids manage? Besides, I don't remember everyone being in suits at Oxford interviews.

As for the implication that it is formality that shows you 'care enough'... Yes, you can care enough to prepare students for a bright future without putting them in polyester blazers. Just like schools do in other countries.

LemonRoses - so the right cohorts are not poorer children?

I was a poor child who went to a very very low achieving high school in the UK. We wore whatever we wanted in 6th form. Somehow, despite all these disadvantages, I got into a top UK university.

Thank god they didn't require us to wear formal suits for 6th form. I'd have had to forget about studying for A levels. It was enough of a challenge anyway, but instituting an exclusionary dress code would have been the final straw.

Interesting. So is it caring enough to set high expectations that gets your state school students into Oxbridge, or is it upgrading the uniform to exclude poorer children and attract a different cohort?

@lazylinguist

Interesting. So is it caring enough to set high expectations that gets your state school students into Oxbridge, or is it upgrading the uniform to exclude poorer children and attract a different cohort?

I had been wondering similar.

OP I sooo agree!! I wish schools would focus on teaching my child rather than worrying about the colour of her hairband!

I just spent over £300 on my daughter’s uniform and I’ve not even bought everything on their list yet. Total madness

This thread has shown how much is wrong with the U.K. education system when having the correct, expensive but impractical uniform has such importance at some schools.

@lazylinguist

Such a great post!

Thank you. I came gradually to being anti-uniform. I totally understand why it would be really hard for individual schools to ditch it though. It would be a risk setting yourself apart from other local schools when so many parents believe the hype about uniform.

It's interesting having teenage dc in the school where both dh and I work/have worked. It gives us insight into how the students view aspects of the school and policies which in some cases dh has implemented! My dc are bright, high-achieving, rule-abiding kids, but they despise petty rules and teachers who they see as over-zealous about them, and they think uniform is utterly pointless.

We have similar kids - we abided by the uniform - but my kids left school despising the very nature of the institution and the stupid rules they put in place and I could not defend the rules because they were clearly nonsense and I was not prepared to defend the nonsense rules - my teens need to trust my judgement and feel that I know where the line is - it helps them trust me, be honest with me and keep them safe. Schools need to cut the stupid uniform rules they are creating the problem

@Parker231 @tennisballboy

I agree suits in 6th form are unnecessary expensive for kids that are still growing, and impractical for a large number of subjects.
Art , woodwork, cookery, some science subjects for example. My DD is likely to do art at A level, if she was working with oil paints, ink, clay, chicken wire, paper mache etc in almost any other situation I wouldnt expect her to wear a suit!
It's like on "the apprentice " when they all turn up in their 1980s inspired power suits and then start working in a factory, on a farm , doing decorating or gardening in clothes that are completely unsuitable for the task at hand.

I went to college where there was no uniform. I wore comfortable clothes, I dont remember anyone wearing anything wacky or inappropriate, or that the lack of uniform made us all misbehave or be rude to teachers.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

I agree with uniforms and can't get my head round why any parent thinks their princess should be allowed to go to school dressed like a hooker if they so wish. You all knew that kids would be required to wear a uniform before you became pregnant with them so why the mock outrage?

Have your very stupid views but don't have kids- no child needs your low level thinking.

So much of the workforce, even in professional services, is casual dress these days. Suits are rapidly becoming consigned to occasions.
Serves no purpose in "preparing them for work". Shows how out of touch these archaic heads have become.

@Nohomemadecandles

So much of the workforce, even in professional services, is casual dress these days. Suits are rapidly becoming consigned to occasions. Serves no purpose in "preparing them for work". Shows how out of touch these archaic heads have become.

After spending a dress down day at PwC - I’d say people needed to learn how to dress down appropriately for work - wearing a suit is a piece of piss in comparison.