Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

@GreenLakes - I would say shorts were common all year round very many decades ago! I was at Primary in the 80s and all the boys wore trousers then.

@tsmainsqueeze

I can see the point of a basic affordable for all uniform , but i absolutely loathe the ridiculous attitudes and rigid rules some schools adhere too. My daughters school are obsessed with trouser fabric and tightness something i can not possibly consider getting worked up about . I see the point of sensible shoes and short nails but what the hell does it matter if the shoes have a discreet label or the nails have a colour ? There are so many more important issues in a school to be concerned about main one i imagine is getting a kid to engage with education , schools should choose their battles. Growing up is all about finding your style , your tribe etc schools might be better off embracing that. And as for equalising we all know that kids , sadly ,easily work out who has less .

This.

Basic affordable and accessible to all uniform is fine.

The new competitive "we are the best school as look at our clones walking down the street and don't look at our actual results or ofsted report" is not.

My local sink academy which switched to academy and is still doing badly is in the middle of a area of low socio economic deprivation.

The parents were disenfranchised with education and so are the pupils. Making them wear £18 school skirts which come in 1 style despite your personal size, height and shape is not engaging them in education.

There isn't an element of choice here either. Most secondaries are 2-3 miles apart and always full - very few get out of catchment and those in catchment who don't get their first choice are preferring to send their kids elsewhere on bus or train.

Perhaps if they enticed people in with a high quality education and affordable uniform those who cannot get into their own school would attend the academy. They would be a positive influence on their peers who don't get it from home.

Same with the strict rules re pens etc. Some kids don't have them, they would rather miss school than get another detention or move up to isolation. It's not teachers responsibilities to provide these things which I know they are having to do. The government needs to fund schools properly so those who already have the greatest disadvantage aren't disadvantaged out more due to expensive uniform and lack of stationary.

There is no evidence that wearing a school uniform improves behaviour and attainment or the majority of schools around the world would be failing their pupils - which they aren’t.

Just remembered. Saw it on holidays in Brazil, all the kids had tshirts/polos with the school logo (I remember them being bright blue) but besides that they could wear what they wanted. Some had jeans on, others white skirts, for example. And whatever shoes they wanted. That seems ok for me, better than strict uniform

I was a teacher for 25 years. I loathed uniforms. They have no impact on attainment. Everywhere else across the world seems to manage to educate their young to a good standard without an itchy blazer or collar and tie.

Dh and ds and 2xdss have professional jobs. None of them wear a tie or jacket. They just wear t shirts and shirts. Usual dress code these days is smart casual for office work.

Ok. So then the rule is “No false nails” What about these?

Those look like short gel nails or acrylics with a traditional French manicure. Neat and smart. I don’t think short natural looking nails should be banned, French or French Fade or natural pink even if they’re gel or acrylic.

However if they’re false nails or false tips, there’s a risk they could get caught on stuff during PE/sport and ripped off, damaging the nail bed. So I’d still say no false nails or false tips for school. Although it’s quite hard to tell a fake nail nowadays as lots of girls use natural looking nail wraps or gel etc?

@StrangeToSee

The thing is that you are telling your DC it’s ok to break school rules. If the rule is top button done up and tie worn properly, that is what you should enforce (regardless of whether you agree personally with it).

It is our duty as parents to support schools and expect our DC to meet their rules and expectations.

It is our duty as parents to support schools and expect our DC to meet their rules and expectations.

I actually don't agree with this. Not all rules are logical, sensible or make any amount of sense.

@warmfluffytowels

Whether a rule is logical or sensible, or whether you personally agree with it is totallly irrelevant.

As a parent, you agree to abide by the decisions and policies of the school when you enrol your DC. If you are no longer willing to support those rules, you need to withdraw your DC.

And rules that are racist or sexist should he followed too?

[quote GreenLakes]@warmfluffytowels

Whether a rule is logical or sensible, or whether you personally agree with it is totallly irrelevant.

As a parent, you agree to abide by the decisions and policies of the school when you enrol your DC. If you are no longer willing to support those rules, you need to withdraw your DC.[/quote]
Absolute rubbish, I agree no such thing.

[quote GreenLakes]@warmfluffytowels

Whether a rule is logical or sensible, or whether you personally agree with it is totallly irrelevant.

As a parent, you agree to abide by the decisions and policies of the school when you enrol your DC. If you are no longer willing to support those rules, you need to withdraw your DC.[/quote]
Many parents have no choice over which school their child attends. Where we are, there is one high school - no other choices unless you're able to pay for private, or are able to pay several hundred per term for transport to other schools. Withdrawing them and sending them elsewhere isn't as easy as you seem to think it is.

Parents send their kids to school because it's the law for them to have an education and they don't have the knowledge (or finances) to home school their kids. That doesn't mean they have to agree with a bunch of pointless rules about nail polish, shoes and top buttons.

I'm a teacher and hate the outdated concept of anyone wearing ties. It looks ridiculous and so unnecessary for young people. I think some kind of uniform is ok but not so rigid as no nail polish/jewellery/make up etc

I work in schools and I hate the kind of uniform obsession you describe. A basic uniform is something I can get behind for ease and practicality but we ate way past that here. Having taught abroad I can assure UK teachers that at no point did I ever think - well this would be easier if the kids had a uniform on.

Also my academy chain seems to have decided that the best look for teen girls is a sort of soft porn catholic school girl look 🙄 it’s ridiculous

@TeenMinusTests

Given how casual most offices are these days I don’t understand why schools are ever more draconian.

However many jobs do often require a uniform:

• airline pilot
• shop worker
• vet nurse
• railway worker

to name a few.

But the employers that require one to wear the uniform provide it free of charge, unlike schools …

And all those suggested uniform wearing people either interact with the public so need to be identiable easily, or need uniform for protection ( vet nurse)

The majority of the U.K. office based.workforce are smart casual now.

I don't really mind uniforms as long as they are sensible, comfortable and most importantly they have to be affordable to all.

So that means something like school trousers and generic polo shirts that you can buy anywhere and not some ridiculous branded stuff that the school clearly makes a profit off. It also means not mandating fucking idiotic things like dark jackets.

@TeenMinusTests

Given how casual most offices are these days I don’t understand why schools are ever more draconian.

However many jobs do often require a uniform:

• airline pilot
• shop worker
• vet nurse
• railway worker

to name a few.

Yes, but in most cases where you need a uniform in a job that requires specific items you can't buy cheaply yourself, it is either provided for you, or you purchase it and can claim back the cost of it.

I know schools help low income families cover costs with grants, but I bet you don't get replacements for damaged/outgrown clothing in that year.

These rules to me show a lack of control in the other areas of the school. As a pp has said, it's one area a school can control. Bad performance and bad behaviour is a bit more difficult to control and it's one way to keep up appearances of a good school when other aspects are failing. Other countries seem to manage just fine without it, so I'm not sure why we are so sure Draconian uniform rules benefit the children so much.

Those look like short gel nails or acrylics with a traditional French manicure. Neat and smart. I don’t think short natural looking nails should be banned, French or French Fade or natural pink even if they’re gel or acrylic

However if they’re false nails or false tips, there’s a risk they could get caught on stuff during PE/sport and ripped off, damaging the nail bed. So I’d still say no false nails or false tips for school. Although it’s quite hard to tell a fake nail nowadays as lots of girls use natural looking nail wraps or gel etc?

This becomes impossible to police. How long is too long? Which colours are ok?

Much easier to just have a “No nail varnish or false nails” rule.

You have no idea about just how outraged a teen would become if their false nails were deemed not ok but the girl two seats up had false nails that were ok.

A lot of the rules that seem draconian are simply to avoid endless conversations about just exactly what the rules mean.

I think we should be encouraging indivuality in our young rather than uniformity.

Me too ArseInTheCoOpWindow. Also I just hate the arbitrary/draconian rules. An example: My dd's old school had a branded winter coat we had to buy for £35. It's April, it's -1 degrees on the morning school run, which for us is a one mile walk. I put her in her winter coat. We get to school, and the head of year group WHO IS HERSELF WEARING A WINTER COAT BECAUSE IT IS COLD OUT says to my 5 year old dd, sorry you're not allowed your winter coat because it's the summer term now!!!

Reminds me of our primary school choir singing outside at the Christmas Carnival - they weren't allowed to wear their coats! Sometimes I think schools forget that kids are human beings when they come up with these daft uniform rules.

Or the shirts must be tucked in - unless they are a summer shirt and then they aren't allowed to be tucked in. This is the shit that is so important to them, I suppose it's easier to focus on kids uniform standards than to improve teaching standards.

I detest school uniform with a passion, especially polyester blazers.
DD has an ASC with massive sensory issues. Uniform has always been an issue for us and I have had to be hugely creative to solve it.
In our town there are no schools with a relaxed uniform policy, at least 4 of the schools are part of the same academy chain and they are obsessed with piddly details.
Luckily DD's school had a sensible HT. I collared her at a meeting and we agreed adjustments - DD wears a polo shirt instead of a formal shirt etc. DD also wears shorts under her skirt as she hates the skirt rubbing on her legs but refuses to wear trousers.
We'd all be far happier with a less restrictive uniform like a colour of polo shirt and joggers or leggings.