Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

@Cloudninenine - my DC’s didn’t wear a school uniform. Everyone wore non branded jeans, variety of T-shirt’s and sweatshirts. There wasn’t a culture of bullying as reported in other schools.
@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland - do you evidence of high attainment in schools with a uniform. My DC’s left with all A’s and have never worn a school uniform.

I couldn't disagree more. I think children need lower level boundaries to kick against whilst remaining within the more important boundaries. I think children need to learn that sometimes they have to do as they are told and fit into societal norms. I think there is no great problem getting the right colour hair bobbles or socks without bows and parents that allow this allow a metaphorical finger up at the school staff.

Is it not possible to implement lower level boundaries in other ways? Like all the school rules (line up, behaviour, no running, eating lunch at a set time, warnings and punishments for unacceptable behaviour).

Hair must be tied up for health and safety and socks are essential for comfort, so I hardly think it’s parents putting the middle finger up if they run out of the right colour! Last week I ran out of black socks for my DD as I discovered the ‘clean’ ones were somehow full of sand despite being washed! So she wore blue socks that day and I apologised to her teacher on drop off. The teacher laughed and said no problem.

This is bollocks. A secondary aged child needs to be ironing their own shirts! Primary children rarely wear button down shirts and in any case usually have jumpers over the top, I don't know anyone who irons them. My mother never ironed my school shirts. You do not need to buy from an expensive "eco brand" to obtain a cotton school shirt

Mine are primary (one in reception one in year 3) and they have to wear button down shirts.

I’ve never found pure cotton shirts outside of eco brands (which are 5x the price of Tesco) and need ironing.

My mum did iron my high school shirts. I don’t think I ironed anything apart from pillow cases until I left home at 18, she didn’t trust me not to singe stuff 😂

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Take the horrible polyester shirts for example; hot and sweaty in summer, cold in winter. Of course I could buy cotton but I’d have to iron it and for a FT working mum that’s another job and more expensive as I’d have to buy from an eco brand.

This is bollocks. A secondary aged child needs to be ironing their own shirts! Primary children rarely wear button down shirts and in any case usually have jumpers over the top, I don't know anyone who irons them. My mother never ironed my school shirts. You do not need to buy from an expensive "eco brand" to obtain a cotton school shirt.

We just don't iron, easy! Shirt is covered by blazer and if it's hot and the blazer is off then the creases drop out. We do own an iron if DS wanted to use it.

Wtf is a 'fashion trouser'?

We just don't iron, easy! Shirt is covered by blazer and if it's hot and the blazer is off then the creases drop out. We do own an iron if DS wanted to use it.

I was objecting to polyester or poly cotton as it’s harsh on the skin, cold in winter and hot in summer.

The alternative would be to kit my DC out in pure cotton shirts but yes they would need ironing as pure cotton crumples so much the collars won’t stand up

I can't say my kids have ever commented on the fabrics of school uniforms. They play a lot of sport so their school sports kit is in the wash most days. The artificial materials are much more practical as they dry quickly and don't often rip. I hated the old fashioned heavy cotton rugby shirts for that reason, plus if it's raining (which seemed to be most of the time...), they were a lot heavier to wear once they were sodden.

Personally, I don't mind school uniform. It's easy and it's part of a set of rules the kids have to respect at school, as they will in the workplace. As with haircuts, piercings, certain behaviour etc. I don't understand parents who encourage their kids to push the rules to the margin, it just wastes teachers' time and diverts them from being able to teach or prepare for lessons.

Peppallama
It's usually used as a catch all expression in uniform policies to mean "please buy your child school trousers and not whatever some shops stock in their 'school' section that tries to nod to whatever happens to be in trend".

Eg. Buy school trousers, not thick leggings with bright silver zips up the ankles/down the front, buy school trousers not black jeans. Don't completely ignore what school trousers are and then complain when we say leggings are not school trousers because "they were in the school section of New Look".

A school near me has heavy wool/tweed type blazers for boys. Apparently they stink when wet (and obviously cant be popped in the washing machine)
I'm quite glad my DC school has standard machine washable blazers.

I don’t see what’s wrong with thick, plain, relaxed fit jeggings tbh. In winter most of the reception class wore them after a mum posted a link to fleece lined thermal jeggings. They had a pull up waist and no embellishments or zips or slogans. They looked almost the same as ‘school’ trousers just had a soft furry thermal lining instead of unlined polyester trousers. Plus they were stretchy.

My DC insist on cotton vests under their school shirts even in summer so I don’t think it’s fair to say kids don’t notice fabric.

I wouldn’t want to wear a polyester blouse, it would be itchy, sweaty and offer no warmth in summer nor any breath ability or wicking in summer. Would you want to wear one?

I just don’t see why button up polyester shirts can’t be replaced by T-shirt’s or turtlenecks?

A school near me has heavy wool/tweed type blazers for boys. Apparently they stink when wet

At least wool is water repellent and warm.

Presumably they’re using the wool cycle, proper wool detergent and drying flat?

None of my wool items smell when wet.

While I was at school there was a massive change in uniform. It went from black trousers or skirt, white shirt, school tie and black jumper/cardigan to overpriced blazer from one supplier, black trousers but if you want to wear a skirt it's in a specific tartan that can only be bought from the aforementioned supplier. And 2 different ties depending on what year you were in. The financial impact was huge. So while I do see the benefits of a uniform it should not be difficult to source.

A school near me has heavy wool/tweed type blazers for boys. Apparently they stink when wet (and obviously cant be popped in the washing machine)

They definitely do. We had them at my private primary and they were horrendous. The classroom stunk of wet dog in winter and they were all dry-clean only so only got washed every 6-8 weeks at best. Pretty grim when you think about it!

At least wool is water repellent and warm.

Ideal for a summer day!

They wear them all year round and yes they probably are warmer than the synthetic ones in the winter. I'm not sure anyone who chose their own clothes would wear a wool blazer in summer though.
No idea how they wash them, I've just heard other parents say they smell when wet , and take forever to dry.

I don’t see what’s wrong with thick, plain, relaxed fit jeggings tbh
Because most of the fashion items sold by shops as school uniform are not plain relaxed fit jeggings, and also if the uniform says "school trousers" then it means school trousers, not school trousers unless you think a pair of fashionable leggings is better in which case do what you like and not school trousers unless you would prefer to wear relaxed fit jeggings.

Speaking more generally this is exactly the problem schools have: they make a fairly simple rule like "wear school trousers, not fashion ones, not jeans, not leggings" and some parents see that and decide that doesn't apply to them.

It doesn't matter what you, me or anyone else decides we would prefer a uniform to be. If a school has clearly said what the uniform is then going to and buying items that aren't in the uniform is silly, but some parents do it year in year out.

@StrangeToSee

A school near me has heavy wool/tweed type blazers for boys. Apparently they stink when wet

At least wool is water repellent and warm.

Presumably they’re using the wool cycle, proper wool detergent and drying flat?

None of my wool items smell when wet.

All wool blazers I've ever owned have been dry-clean only ones, and I had them from three different suppliers for school.

And water repellent and warm isn't remotely useful in the summer months and just leads to sweating and trapped odour, which is then stuck in the fabric until the blazers can be dry-cleaned at half term.

In winter months, most kids take their own coats to school on top of blazers anyway so the they don't need to be water repellent anyway. I'd much rather kids wear a cheap, machine-washable blazer that cost £30 or so, than one from that costs well over £100 from the official outfitters!

Speaking more generally this is exactly the problem schools have: they make a fairly simple rule like "wear school trousers, not fashion ones, not jeans, not leggings" and some parents see that and decide that doesn't apply to them.

Why not just "wear plain black/grey trousers". Why the need to specify the style? Does it really matter if Josie wears leggings but Sophie prefers something else?

Don't be ridiculous OP. Teenagers would be wearing no end of outrageous outfits for school, because it's what teens do. They push boundaries so if you remove boundaries (uniforms) classes would e
Have kids looking like they came out of a nightclub. Of course many would dress more sensibly but there will always be the rebels.

A uniform should be simple, grey skirt or trousers, white blouse or shirt, navy jumper or sweatshirt. No expensive blazers or logos, and leeway to mix and match styles to allow some individuality

The alternative would be to kit my DC out in pure cotton shirts but yes they would need ironing as pure cotton crumples so much the collars won’t stand up
The DC could iron the collars if they wanted them to stand up

I like school uniform because it's easy and doesn't lead to hours of stressing about what to wear.

But we are in Scotland where state schools have not gone down the "logo on everything" route which many English schools appear to have done. My kids at senior school need a black blazer with a badge (£32) and a tie (£5). Everything else is black and white and the school don't care whether you buy it from Asda or Harrods. PE kit with logos doesn't exist - kids are told to wear what they want, only rule is no offensive slogans, no football kit, no alcohol branding.

I don't iron casual clothing so the way I see it is if the school insists on uniforms then they can have those unironed too. DS 15 doesn't care if anything is ironed but if he did he could do it himself!

But we are in Scotland where state schools have not gone down the "logo on everything" route which many English schools appear to have done. My kids at senior school need a black blazer with a badge (£32) and a tie (£5). Everything else is black and white and the school don't care whether you buy it from Asda or Harrods. PE kit with logos doesn't exist - kids are told to wear what they want, only rule is no offensive slogans, no football kit, no alcohol branding.

I'd be completely on board with this type of uniform.

@TheGenealogist

I like school uniform because it's easy and doesn't lead to hours of stressing about what to wear.

But we are in Scotland where state schools have not gone down the "logo on everything" route which many English schools appear to have done. My kids at senior school need a black blazer with a badge (£32) and a tie (£5). Everything else is black and white and the school don't care whether you buy it from Asda or Harrods. PE kit with logos doesn't exist - kids are told to wear what they want, only rule is no offensive slogans, no football kit, no alcohol branding.

I'm also in Scotland and very similar although the school specifies blue PE shorts (£5/£6) and white t-shirt from anywhere. There is a blazer (£35) and tie (£5) and then you can have any black skirt/trousers and white shirts/blouses

@worktrip

Don't be ridiculous OP. Teenagers would be wearing no end of outrageous outfits for school, because it's what teens do. They push boundaries so if you remove boundaries (uniforms) classes would e Have kids looking like they came out of a nightclub. Of course many would dress more sensibly but there will always be the rebels.

A uniform should be simple, grey skirt or trousers, white blouse or shirt, navy jumper or sweatshirt. No expensive blazers or logos, and leeway to mix and match styles to allow some individuality

Don't be ridiculous OP. Teenagers would be wearing no end of outrageous outfits for school, because it's what teens do. They push boundaries so if you remove boundaries (uniforms) classes would e Have kids looking like they came out of a nightclub. Of course many would dress more sensibly but there will always be the rebels.

Or they could just have a dress code like they do everywhere else in the world?

Why not just "wear plain black/grey trousers". Why the need to specify the style? Does it really matter if Josie wears leggings but Sophie prefers something else?
"School trousers" means that students can find a pair of school trousers in a cut that fits and suits them. There's enough options out there and lots of shops sell school trousers

If schools don't want leggings in their uniform then fine, just like they don't say boys can wear board shorts, or tracksuits.

Most of the "but why does it matter?" arguments work both ways. If it doesn't matter then there's no problem buying a pair of school trousers instead of leggings/joggers/jeans/jeggings etc.

It doesn't matter whether you would choose a different uniform, or I would chose no uniform, or whether someone else would rather have leggings worn as trousers throughout secondary. If a school has set its uniform then parents who choose to buy items that aren't on it are being ridiculous.