AIBU- Dog vs neighbours allergic child !

[Henryhoover12]

Please can someone tell us if we’re being unreasonable or our neighbours are. We moved to a new house and really got on with our neighbours they are very lovely and we spend lots of time speaking to them. We mentioned that we were purchasing a dog In which they had mortified looks on their faces and explained their DC is extremely allergic to dogs (e.g can’t be in class with anyone who owns a dog etc has been in hospital) we kind of brushed it off and said we can speak about it closer to the time.

After that everytime we bumped into them they kept asking if we “changed our minds” which we found so awkward but in the end we told them not getting a dog wasn’t an option is we have always wanted one but are happy to work things out so it’s safe for their child. They took this badly and didn’t speak to us for a while. Closer to us picking up the dog we went around and asked what they would like us to do to ensure safety for their child.

One of the (long list of) rules was that we didn’t let the dog out while their child was in the garden. This seemed fine at the time until we realised their child is ALWAYS in the garden. And I mean always they have a little treehouse type thing that they play in so come rain and sunshine they are out there. At first we tried to play ball like if our dog wanted to wee we would walk him to the park 10 minutes but now it’s just getting ridiculous so we have started letting him go to wee when it’s raining outside because we really can’t be asked to walk 20 minutes just for that. The last time we did the mum came our and shouted at me saying I’m going to kill her child. AIBU to think that our dog has every much right to use our garden as the child? Our poor dog loves to be outside but is trapped inside because of this and I’m starting to think it’s really unfair

I also think it's bollox about the non dog owning school class guarantee

No school could ever promise that
If a family want to get a dog mid term then that is their prerogative. Are the school really going to move all the classes around for that?? Obviously not. It would be mayhem.

I honestly do refuse to believe that anyone is so allergic that a dog outside in a neighbouring garden can cause a reaction (or some dog hair on a classmates clothes- assuming normal levels of hygiene).

I haven't read the full thread but I have read the OP posts.

I am a mum of a child with a whole host of bizarre allergies including to her own body...to settle the pizza debate pineapple could kill her so no it does not belong... she is on a form of chemo to suppress said reactions but that also means we cannot be sure when she is having a reaction anymore.

Dd has been hospitalised a couple of times for allergies, frequently sent home from school due to borderline anaphylaxis over some random unknown allergen.

I have huge sympathy for your neighbours @Henryhoover12 it is unbelievably scary dealing with allergies you know of let alone ones you don't. And if they are as severe as you suggest I can understand the mum being hyper vigilant.

However, they are absolutely fucking insane to think they have any right to dictate how you live your life and what pet you do or don't have. They need a massive dose of reality.

And for the record, most pet allergies are to either their saliva or the skin dander so your dog being in its own garden should not pose a threat to their child.

@missingholland

Not the same. - you are choosing to do what you want to do and how you use your home. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to keep your room set up as is. Annoying for your neighbour, maybe. But they aren’t telling you what to do, you are choosing to do that. OP is being told what she can and can’t do on her own home.
Massive difference. And I think you know that.

Additionally it’s not just about the use of the garden. We have a long list of things we have to follow (don’t feel comfortable sharing as they are so specific and so outing) that is she read this she would know

Go on, tell us. I would think if she’s reading this she would already know. There can’t be too many cul de sacs full of relatives, a child with such a severe allergy and the only neighbour not related owning a dog.

Schools can’t guarantee ‘dog free’ zones. They have no control over ancillary staff - like cleaners who may own dogs and clean the classroom etc.

If their child is so allergic - how do they leave their house? Dogs are everywhere - do they not go to parks? What happens if a dog walks past them in a street. Anaphylatic shock due to the scent in the air is normally associated with nuts - not dogs. I think they're hyping this up - get a dog.

As some one who is seriously allergic to certain cats and dogs and have been since childhood - they are being unreasonable. I start wheezing within about 10-15 mins of being near a dog / in a room with a pet that sets me off. Some dogs do nothing. In the open air with a fence between - they need to calm down.

Luckily, brought up in a less precious era, but I was given an antihistamine and told to get on with it. Told not to stroke and keep away from them. If I came in wheezing needing my inhaler and swollen eyes - was told off for getting too close and stroking them.

@missingholland

This discussion has been the maddest I have seen on Mumsnet thus far. WTAF.

Human lives trump dog lives. No exceptions. To suggest that a pet means as much to someone as their (only) child to its parents is completely out of order. Despite what we say, 'fur babies' are not the same as human babies. A dog cannot be equated with a child, no matter how much its owner (not its parent!) loves it. You can purchase (even directly select) a dog at any stage of your life. (The Queen alone has had dozens and dozens of them.) You cannot go out and just 'get' a new child.

I grew up with a dog. But if I had to chose between the dog and the human family members, I would chose the humans without a second thought. In fact, almost everyone in their right mind would. In WWII, my grandfather's family, who were occupied by the Nazis at the time, had no food. With a heavy heart they slaughtered the family's pets. They didn't consider cannibalising a child.

If my neighbour had told me their child was severely allergic, I would not have bought a dog. Even if I had always wanted one. It is clear from the OP's comments that this is a serious allergy, and not 'played up'. Her parents (and entire family) have consciously created a 'safe space' for her to grow up and play in, and this safe space has now come under threat, because of OP's lifelong 'dog dream'. Of course the parents are anxious, the new neighbours have just massive amped up the danger level in the one area of the child's life where they thought they had completely safeguarded her.

Plenty easy for people to say 'they should move to detached/more land'. OP already wrote that the gardens are decently sized. Not every family has the money for a bigger place. In addition, for a girl who sounds very isolated already from others, are you really suggesting to cut off even more ties? Her family live around her dog-less for a purpose.

Also kind of cheap to say 'she should stay indoors'. We would call that child abuse in any other circumstance, but interesting to know that seems to be acceptable to so many PPs when it comes to inconveniencing a dog (who really doesn't care where it plays and does its business).

For those saying disbelievingly 'she wouldn't be able to go anywhere?': that is the whole point. This child does not have an alternative to her garden. It is clear from OP's writing that her world is very, very small, and her life very restricted. Just because you haven't ever come across someone with such a severe allergy, doesn't mean it can't exist.

In terms of OP's suggestion that you never know what you are going to get with a child, it is clear from PP's comments that having a child with an insanely rare and severe allergy is not a thought that comes up in most people. I don't think this is an argument at all, OP. This is clearly an extreme situation. If we had to take all those eventualities into account when deciding on pregnancy, nobody would procreate anymore.

Of course they cannot legally 'force' the OP to not buy a dog and leave it in her own garden. But I think, morally, what OP is doing is wrong. (And I am sorry, OP, you sound nice, but I seriously think you are morally in the wrong here, even if you are legally in the right.) Imagine being in their shoes. I would have been deeply frustrated, too, especially as you got along previously. Why would a 'friend' consciously endanger your child? Even if it is the smallest risk, why would you add another stone to their already heavy burden?

I think that this debate has clearly highlighted that according to the average Mumsnet user, Britain's two sacred pillars, personal property and canine lives, should be protected at all cost. Even if it is an innocent little girl's health and wellbeing that is at stake.

What about the millions of children who live in flats with no outdoor space at all to play in? Are their parents abusing them? Is the council who places them in those flats abusing them?

[quote missingholland]@YellowBellyCat, when it comes to life-threatening stuff (or even avoiding inconvenience for them), I happily bow to my neighbours. As we say in Dutch, 'a good neighbour is better than a far-away friend'.

I am pregnant and live in a semi-detached. We share the master bedroom wall with our neighbour, who is an elderly widow, but still has decent hearing. It is not very soundproof. We are planning to change bedrooms before the baby comes to the smaller one at the other side of the house, so her sleep does not get interrupted when baby would cry all night.

Are we obliged to do this? No. Is it an inconvenience? Yes. Is it the morally right thing to do? We think so. Of course we could have said 'It is our own property and we can do what we want there. She should have known a young couple could move in who are having children'. But we rather invest in the relationship, including by ensuring we have no negative effect on her wellbeing. We feel that suits us all better in the long run.

OP consciously jeopardised relations with the neighbours, by doing something that could potentially affect their vulnerable child, and is now surprised about the social repercussions.[/quote]
But your situation is totally different and irrelevant. I'm also a very nice and considerate neighbour so will also rub my halo.

But OPs neighbours aren't being considerate are they? It works both ways. It's their kid with the issue so they ought to propose a reasonable compromise.... Ie kid likes to play between x times (short window in the evening and short windows in the weekend). Could you please avoid the dog going out between those times. Fine. Not, we're going to hog the garden and you can't use yours as you like.

Then the added bad neighbours shit of 5am screaming and other demands. It's them who need to work on being good neighbours.

Some answers to questions:
-the family didn’t buy the houses to protect the child. They all brought the homes before the child was born so it was more of a way to be around family then anything. I know it’s a weird setup but it’s nice seeing them all have family bbqs etc and the houses have been passed down through generations.
-nothing mentioned when purchasing the house as the person as I was through probate. No issues with previous sellers.
-The rules impact our day to day life in more ways than you can imagine so “inconvenience” doesn’t even cut it.

@bogoffmda
Sorry to hear this. Nice to hear from someone with life experience.
Would you be reactive to just being in a room with someone who had pets eg in a work / classroom environment?

@missingholland you’ve moved rooms so that your crying baby doesn’t wake the neighbour. But what if your neighbour said to you your not allowed to have a baby? But you have a baby then she adds a whole list of rules:
-baby can’t be awake at this time
-baby can’t cry at this time
-baby cant go outside when she’s outside
-baby is not to be seen or heard
-baby must be taken out of a different door
-baby’s car and car seat must not be parked on the drive

The poster who asked her neighbour to stop putting egg shells down, did you ever consider stopping your toddler from going into her garden? Surely that is the decent, none entitled thing to do?

Wait, what's the problem with egg shells?

They need to move to a house safe enough for this child, rather than attempt to impose idiotic restrictions on all around them.

@Bargebill19 My example was meant to indicate that in some instances we need to inconvenience ourselves for the benefit of others, even if we are not technically required to do so.

In OP's situation, I would not have thought twice. I would not have gotten the dog if there was even the teeny-tiniest likelihood it might affect an innocent child's wellbeing.

There are people so allergic to peanuts, that they can't be in the garden to someone who has them?

With a fence in-between? In the open air?

And these people can also go to school?

A school can ban peanuts from site. They can ask parents not to feed their kids nut based products for breakfast.

They can't refuse school places to people who own dogs.

You are unlikely to walk by a ope packet of peanuts on your way to school, but could walk by a dog.

The parents or wider family, must see other people, have jobs etc?

Dogs and peanuts are not the same thing.

[quote missingholland]@Bargebill19 My example was meant to indicate that in some instances we need to inconvenience ourselves for the benefit of others, even if we are not technically required to do so.

In OP's situation, I would not have thought twice. I would not have gotten the dog if there was even the teeny-tiniest likelihood it might affect an innocent child's wellbeing.[/quote]
Are you the bat shit neighbour????

Poor op. You're being bullied.

It's going to be hard to turn the tables as they've backed you into a corner. My suggestion is letting the dog out and ignoring the door, phone screaming etc.

Alternatively text them. "We've been thinking about your rules. It's not working for us. We've decided to do our own thing from now on. All the best"

Frankly? I'd tell them to stuff their rules where the sun doesn't shine if their daughter woke me up at 5am. In fact I'd be sending my dog into the garden to see what the noise is. And so on.
Compromise doesn't come only from one side.

Having said that: you need to move. Tell them to club together and buy you out so you can buy a nice house somewhere else and get out of their lives.

All neighbour relationships need to be based on compromise. One of mine wanted to keep a low fence between us when we renew, I'd prefer a high fence. We've compromised with a bit of both and the low one won't be as low as what's there now. My other neighbour is a twat and wants everything their own way and will push and push and push until they get pushback from me. They're not speaking to me now because push entered crazy fucker territory and I reported him.

Don't be embarrassed about the list. You wanted to retain good relations between you, but they pushed. Since you've got a high fence plus hedges in both gardens between you, I suspect this isn't a new problem. You were happy to compromise on the time doggo went into the garden, but that was before you realised their child was in the garden full time. It's not reasonable to expect your dog to stay indoors all the time! You were being neighbourly and considerate, but you can't live your life to a list they've decided on!

When you speak to them tell them you agreed to keep your dog in when their child was outside, not realising the situation. You really should mention the 5am thing too... more and more it feels like the previous owners escaped a batshit situation.

Reading your updates @Henryhoover12 it sounds like you have been far to accommodating and they are now taking the piss.

Going forward you agree to keep the dog away from the child but the dog will be using the garden it’s up to them to look after their own child not you.

I call bullshit, being outside in open air far apart in separate gardens should not affect the child unless they come up to the fence and touch the dog.

They can't dictate what you can and can't do in the privacy of your own property. It's not like you're taking the dog into their house and they are not coming into your house.

Op. Stop being accommodating. Live your life within reason (no breaking the law) and enjoy and use your home and garden as you wish.
If they have a problem - ignore them. Or sell and hope the new owners are not at all accommodating in anyway.

I wouldn’t be paying out for a fence. If they want one they need to provide it. In the unlikely event that no one in the class has a dog what happens if a family decide to get one? I’ve come across lots of parents who exaggerate the seriousness of their child’s allergy including one who told me her child was allergic to foxes. How would they know? I think asking for more information from the allergy nurse is a great idea.

Op what are you going to do?