To think extending the school day is a terrible idea

[footballdisharmony]

Apparently Boris thinks that extending the school day is the 'right thing to do' (as reported in the Guardian today) I think this is an awful idea. I'm interested what others think?

I think keeping them at school longer is a mistake and is unlikely to be properly resourced to really make positive impact. Why not just invest in more more teachers/TAs/targeted help. A longer day just eats further into time with friends and family, and time to do other extra curricula activities that children actually really want to do and get a lot from. My primary DC already have homework, spellings, times tables and reading to do after school - surely they need a bit of time to just relax and play!

Totally agree OP. It's just a ridiculous suggestion and anyone who works in a school or has school-aged children could give you a laundry list of reasons why.

I am inclined to think it has more to do with attempting to increase the availability of parents for paid work. And because it's a way of almost entirely shifting the responsibility for limiting the effects of the pandemic on children's education onto teachers and low paid TAs with minimal input and financial assistance from the government.

Well it certainly wouldn't work for me as I have to leave for work shortly after I get home from the school run.

If not enough is getting done in the day then surely that signals that some kind of funding/investment in aspects that take up teaching time that aren't education related rather than dumping more on teachers and expecting them to stay longer

Could they make this mandatory? No way am I sending my 6 and 5 year old in for an even longer day! They are already tired and emotional come friday evening.

In my educational utopia schools would be open 8-6 but not all lesson time... core hours the lesson stuff, 9-3ish like now, the rest free (or affordable) sports clubs, drama, music etc that are optional but cover the standard working day for parents. Run by separate staff, not teachers.

But that takes money...

Sure in NI equivalent of reception, year 1 and year 2 are only in to 2pm

I agree completely. And what about the poor teachers? They're already overworked, and we're just going to expect them to do another half hour a day? It seems nuts to me.

They've long thought more hours at school (and therefore extended childcare) is a vote winner. That's all any of this is about.

I think it's a great idea provided it's not all lesson time - as a PP said, if it's drama/music/sports. So many more parents (especially mothers) will be able to work full time and not be financially and professionally crippled by having to fit their working lives into the shorter hours.

Extending the school day is fine if, and only if, it means no homework (other than some reading at home at primary school). We go on about work-life balance for adults but think nothing of kids doing a six hour day and homework afterwards and punishing young children for not doing homework. If a 9-4 day meant no homework that might be ok, although I wonder if an extra lesson each day would actually achieve much, as both teachers and kids are tired.

I have just read Lucy Kellaway's new book (FT journalist who became a teacher in her late 50s) and she says that the kids regress behaviour-wise about 5 years in the last lesson of the day (and she is tired too). So query if it would actually be any use. Unless you used it for the more creative subjects or PE, but then the teachers can't be everywhere at once.

@HumpHumpWhale I totally agree about them just making the teachers and TAs work longer hours. I'm sure this is likely to happen. You'll just more exhausted staff and students with very little gain and a lot lost in term of leisure time/having time to do stuff out of school.

And what about the parents who have jobs that fit round the school timings?

It would save me a fortune.

A case of “ never mind the quality feel the width “ I fear.

Upside - helps with child care and could be wonderful IF it provides the enrichment activities kids have missed. It won’t, it’ll be more bloody maths when they are tired out.

An extra hour of quiet story time for little ones ? Amazing. Yep mumsnetterz read to their kids till they are adults 😂 but I can bet the kids I meet at work from the local council estate cannot sit for a story really as they never do it. Ditto the kids who are straight on the iPad after school.

Sport , music , craft and art , gardening, board games. All enrichment that schools could reasonably provide at the end of the day - anything to tech kids who have spent days on screens in lockdown , by necessity - education / parents working etc etc.

Won’t happen. You can’t examine / measure it.

Definitely not up for added hours of face the front book learning - except for maybe gcse / a level or functional skills at secondary.

Also what are the teachers NOT going to do it you add this ? Magic teacher tree is as barren as the magic nhs tree. No teacher I know is not fully occupied with their usual e we irk for a couple of hours after school anyway - though you may get volunteers to do the “ surrogate granny stuff I guess whilst the teacher marks in the corner.

Sorry a rant 😂

[quote footballdisharmony]@HumpHumpWhale I totally agree about them just making the teachers and TAs work longer hours. I'm sure this is likely to happen. You'll just more exhausted staff and students with very little gain and a lot lost in term of leisure time/having time to do stuff out of school.[/quote]
TAs would be glad of the extra hours. You can't make a living as a TA because it's so part time. There's no way on earth a teacher's day is about to be extended. It just isn't.

I doubt teaching unions would agree to it- why would they?

My DCs went to private schools and the hours were longer than state schools. This meant they had time to do more music, sport, drama & art in the school day.

More investment is needed in state primary schools; it must be very difficult to teach 30/33 children with very different needs & attention spans. The earlier young children receive attention the less catching up there is later so smaller class sizes with more TAs would be beneficial to all.

The evidence indicates that, on average, pupils make two additional months' progress per year from extended school time and in particular through the targeted use of before and after school programmes. There is some evidence that disadvantaged pupils benefit more, making closer to three months’ additional progress. There are also often wider benefits for low-income students, such as increased attendance at school, improved behaviour, and better relationships with peers.

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/evidence-summaries/teaching-learning-toolkit/extending-school-time/

I have no issue with extending the school day as long as the following happen:

• Staff pay is adjusted accordingly (won't happen)
• The focus is on enrichment, not more academic drill (won't happen)
• The amount of homework is reduced accordingly (won't happen)

Basically this is just trying to recover from the pandemic on the cheap. The UK is spending about £50 per child on this. The Netherlands is spending £1500 per child. Want to bet which country will have better outcomes?

My school day was 8:30-4:30. Didn't do me any harm. Saying that, I took myself there and back across town on two buses from age 11. These days it seems even 15 year olds are taken to school and picked up. Madness.

I agree with no homework part.

Otherwise no, they are desperate to get out by the end of the school day! And teachers are utterly exhausted.
Specific tutoring would be much better.

I would love school to be open later and providing a range of enrichment clubs and activities, not staffed by teachers but by specialists in the area of teaching. I'd welcome art, sport, music etc. I would like it to be optional though.

We all know that won't be what happens though.

I was a primary school child in the 70s and an 8.45am to 4pm or 4.15pm day was standard.

I've always thought school days are a bit short now, especially when you consider everything the teachers have to cram in.

My DH went to private school and his school day was always 8-4. He said they also had to do at least 2 extra curricular things a week which would take the day up till 5 or 6 some nights. Perfect for his working parents and he never minded. He’s completely baffled by state school times and says it makes no sense to start and finish when they do because it doesn’t fit around the normal working day at all. He has a point but I do think the school day is long enough for younger children.

Interesting the comments by people who said their primary school day was longer - but did you also have all the homework, tables and spellings to do? I didn't have any homework during primary apart from a bit of reading every day.

I also wonder what will happen to the other extra curricular activities that children do of their own choice - swimming, dance, football, whatever else!

was always keen for my DC to have activities and friendships outside of school too - particularly for when they've found school challenging/difficult. (I do appreciate I am lucky to be able to facilitate this though).