To think extending the school day is a terrible idea

[footballdisharmony]

Apparently Boris thinks that extending the school day is the 'right thing to do' (as reported in the Guardian today) I think this is an awful idea. I'm interested what others think?

I think keeping them at school longer is a mistake and is unlikely to be properly resourced to really make positive impact. Why not just invest in more more teachers/TAs/targeted help. A longer day just eats further into time with friends and family, and time to do other extra curricula activities that children actually really want to do and get a lot from. My primary DC already have homework, spellings, times tables and reading to do after school - surely they need a bit of time to just relax and play!

@converseandjeans

aroundtheworld

In my educational utopia schools would be open 8-6 but not all lesson time... core hours the lesson stuff, 9-3ish like now, the rest free (or affordable) sports clubs, drama, music etc that are optional but cover the standard working day for parents. Run by separate staff, not teachers.

This is an incredibly long day out of the house for a small child. It's 10 hours. I think it's sad that some parents like this idea. What about coming home and relaxing? A full day of school followed by enforced dancing/drama/music/art sounds hard work!

It's pretty much what private schools do and have done for years. Dd has a two hour lunch break so she has time to do a sports club and have a decent lunch and muck about a bit.

DD's school is reducing school days by 15 minutes starting in September.

I’m on the fence, it’s really down to the quality of what they get in the extra time.

More kids these days are transitioning to school from longer nursery days (7:30-6pm) so maybe in terms of where society has progressed to, its worth reviewing the fit of the school hours for children and adults alike.

A change will never suit everyone, much like the school hours don’t now - hence the need for breakfast clubs/nurseries. Perhaps subsidising these things would be a compromise and make it optional.

I think the reality is that a lot of parents end up paying for pretty sub-standard childcare after school. It's not like most kids skip along home or fun activities with their parents. A lot of extra activities have been squeezed out of the curriculum. So perhaps more time for things would be great

@MargaretThursday
'If they're going to invest money into education (because longer hours will mean more money) let's go for smaller class sizes. That will make far more difference to learning than having 30 exhausted children who hate school.'

I totally agree with this!

For one of my DC who finds school particularly difficult for a variety of reasons, being able to have time to relax/have other interests out of school really helps her cope better with time in school. And smaller classes/more actually targeted help in school would hugely help her. More time at school will make her hate it even more. I think even my other DC who loves school will resent the extra time there and lack of time to see friends and family outside school.

If they're going to invest money into education (because longer hours will mean more money) let's go for smaller class sizes. That will make far more difference to learning than having 30 exhausted children who hate school.

Absolutely. Private schools have smaller classes and are much more adequately resourced - obviously because they have the money to do it. They are able to provide more specialists for extra curricular activities. The longer school day has nothing to do with it. The amount of time in school actually averages out because of the long holidays at Christmas, Easter and Summer - at least an extra 5 weeks off in total. If they want to support state schools they should fork out money to further enrich the time already spent there. My guess is that tacking an extra 45 mins to the end of the day and doing nothing else actually works out a whole lot cheaper. It’s a sad gimmick.

I think it's a great idea but it shouldn't be mandatory and should focus on sport and activities (although there could be a catch-up element for children who need more individual or small group attention).

A lot of children already have to cope with this anyway. It's called afterschool club. So children as a group aren't fundamentally unable to cope with a longer day.

I was at a public school. Mon, Weds, Fri was 8.20 - 18.00, Tues and Thurs 8.20 - 16.30, and Saturdays 8.20 - 12.20.

We lived. I only left school about 12 years ago so I'm not harking back to some 60s rose tinted utopia either.

I wouldn’t be up for it. I would do a worse job elsewhere as I’m already knackered, I get to school for 7:30 and leave school at 4:30 but do work at home 4 evenings a week, if I was at school later I wouldn’t be willing to spend more hours out of work doing tasks so the quality would likely drop.

For me I do a better job when I’m well rested, have a good work life balance and am happy. This benefits my students directly, increasing hours would probably make no difference. Their brains can only take so much in at a time anyway, it will become kids just being bombarded with information rather than learning it.

I should say - it is really interesting to see other peoples views on this, including those who disagree. I guess - as ever - you can't keep everyone happy .

Re holidays, the long school holidays make sense for private school parents (and would make sense for affluent state school parents) as they can usually afford to take family time and pay for holidays, camps, activities and days out. Longer holidays make no sense for the large number of children who are living in poverty or whose parents are struggling... the holidays can be a compete nightmare for these children.

We all deserve a period of bigger breaks away from the kids after all the homeschooling, self isolation etc that has been imposed on us. I support this move.

Plenty of kids already do 7.45 to 6 with breakfast and after school clubs or childminders etc. and manage just fine. Private schools are open longer with time for supervised homework and extracurricular clubs. Providing that at state school too would mean that kids that would otherwise be sitting in front of a screen would benefit massively. I think it’s a good idea.

Many many children do before and after school club anyway as their parents have to work & commute. Doesn't have to be full on lessons - could be homework club, PE, Music, Art, reading time.

I am inclined to think it has more to do with attempting to increase the availability of parents for paid work. And because it's a way of almost entirely shifting the responsibility for limiting the effects of the pandemic on children's education onto teachers and low paid TAs with minimal input and financial assistance from the government.

All of this ^^.

IF it was properly funded and run a longer school day could be a good idea. By which I mean enough funding for schools to employ extra qualified teaching staff and/or pay for high quality extra-curricular activities. There could be targeted extra lessons/activities aimed at areas that individual children need them (for some this might be academic, for others it could be mental health/social skills/fitness etc). The extra school time would allow some parents to work longer/save childcare costs to help them get back on their feet after the impact of lockdowns etc. There could also be less homework so parents can have more family time after school. BUT in reality we all know it will be another Boris soundbite. If it happens, there will be little to no funding so most children will just end up doing after school club type activities with a (probably already overworked) TA. This is no disrespect to TAs- I just expect that in most cases they will just be acting as childcare and not have small enough groups etc to help their learning.

What would make a real difference would be smaller classes (as a PP mentioned- a bit like private schools). Not just for a year or so, but throughout the school lives of these children. But that would mean spending on staff and buildings, which we know is not Boris' priority. Well, unless he can find a way for it to make money for his mates...

TAs would be glad of the extra hours. You can't make a living as a TA because it's so part time. There's no way on earth a teacher's day is about to be extended. It just isn't.

Not all of us! Certainly not myself or my colleagues.

An extra 2.5 or 5 hours a week would barely make a difference. The issue is not the hours we work but the woefully inadequate hourly pay, which does not reflect the level of responsibility involved in the job. It's not just sticking up displays and reading picture books to the kids. It's delivering group lessons (often to the most vulnerable children in the class), providing SEN support, sometimes taking the whole class for periods etc. And all with little to no training and guidance.

For the sake of the pittance I would recieve for the extra few hours, I'd much rather be pouring my time and energy into my own kids who have also suffered as a result of the pandemic, and who would benefit much more from being at home doing some reading or crafts, or going to one of their after school activities, or being taken to the swimming pool, or seeing family, than they possibly would from an extra bit of maths or phonics when they are tired and fed up at the end of a long day.

I appreciate that for some TAs the extra bit of cash might make this a welcome suggestion, but it's most definitely not a universal feeling amongst us all.

I think the school day should be extended. My dream timetable would be something like this:

7am - Drill. Marching/standing to attention, that sort of thing.
8am - Assembly
8:30 - Lessons
10:30 - Break
10:35 - Lessons
12:00 - Lunch
12:20 - Lessons
15:00 - Sports
17:00 - Drill (at least half an hour, longer if there is any misbehaviour or failure to follow instructions - no child can leave before all have completed it satisfactorily)

There would be a couple of hours of homework of course. This would be the Monday to Friday routine, on Saturdays they'd skip the afternoon lessons and go straight to sports then drill, meaning they the could be finished by 4pm. They'd get Sundays off.

it's never going to happen but I will be delighted with a longer school days, and "non academic" activities every afternoon.

Kids should have PE daily for a start.

If they have wealthier parents, they are already part of after-school clubs, sports clubs, languages clubs, drama etc.. anyway.

Children and teens who have been sitting down pretty much all day don't need any more time to "relax", they need to be physically active!

It's got to the point now where I can't tell if posts are satire or not

When do they get to be kids? Imagine a four year old doing 8-5, poor little sods.

Completely agree but millions of parents shove their kids in nursery from 6months+ childcare from 7am - 7pm and no one has an issue with that! (whole working mum brigade of my kid is being enriched and it's perfectly fine blah blah) There are still so many children who go to link clubs at 7am, then school 9-3 and then straight to the childminders. Not sure it's any different for them is it?

My issue - both my kids are elite in sports. That certainly wouldn't happen in a school based sport environment. They finish school at 3/15 and are out 4 evenings a week 5-9pm doing their 'thing'. How are the schools going to cater for those kids?

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

In my educational utopia schools would be open 8-6 but not all lesson time... core hours the lesson stuff, 9-3ish like now, the rest free (or affordable) sports clubs, drama, music etc that are optional but cover the standard working day for parents. Run by separate staff, not teachers.

But that takes money...

I've always said this too, but 6-6. Not mandatory but available. It would get so many more people into full time work who currently just can't. Like me.

Is this just for primary? Many secondary schools in my area are already closing early on Fridays, because they simply cannot afford to keep the school open for the full week.

It's just ridiculous, my son has 5 lessons a day, so what? Are they going to make each lesson 6 minutes longer? I'm sure that will make a huge difference.
Gavin Williamson was looking at this back in March as well, it takes them so long to look at doing anything and then to dither for ever over what it's going to cost that it'll probably never happen - thank goodness.

@ChainJane

I think the school day should be extended. My dream timetable would be something like this:

7am - Drill. Marching/standing to attention, that sort of thing.
8am - Assembly
8:30 - Lessons
10:30 - Break
10:35 - Lessons
12:00 - Lunch
12:20 - Lessons
15:00 - Sports
17:00 - Drill (at least half an hour, longer if there is any misbehaviour or failure to follow instructions - no child can leave before all have completed it satisfactorily)

There would be a couple of hours of homework of course. This would be the Monday to Friday routine, on Saturdays they'd skip the afternoon lessons and go straight to sports then drill, meaning they the could be finished by 4pm. They'd get Sundays off.

Miss drill and extend the lunch break by an hour and 20 and that's my dds day