To think extending the school day is a terrible idea

[footballdisharmony]

Apparently Boris thinks that extending the school day is the 'right thing to do' (as reported in the Guardian today) I think this is an awful idea. I'm interested what others think?

I think keeping them at school longer is a mistake and is unlikely to be properly resourced to really make positive impact. Why not just invest in more more teachers/TAs/targeted help. A longer day just eats further into time with friends and family, and time to do other extra curricula activities that children actually really want to do and get a lot from. My primary DC already have homework, spellings, times tables and reading to do after school - surely they need a bit of time to just relax and play!

Fucking abysmal idea.

When do they get to be kids? Imagine a four year old doing 8-5, poor little sods.

If it's optional/targeted it could be a good idea if funded properly.

I totally disagree with it being mandatory though. My DC don't want or need to be at school any longer that they are.

most private schools have a much longer day so in theory that would not be a bad idea. the obvious problem is funding and what the kids will be doing during this additional time. it should be dedicated to things like music, sport, languages, drama etc like in private schools rather than yet more spelling and maths.

By all means hire more teachers but without adjusting the school day or the school term nothing changes.

I suspect this will be targeted at those pupils who need it the most. Not the ones who couldn't dare miss out on their football/swimming/tennis/ballet/Kumon/private tutor. They are not the ones being disadvantaged.

'most private schools have a much longer day'

They don't have a much longer day, just a bit longer. Or in some cases shorter. The private schools here finish half day on a Weds for the youngest children. And they have much longer school holidays.

If we make state school days longer like private schools do we also make the school holidays longer. How does that work for parents who are seeing the longer school hours just as childcare?

It is a ridiculous idea suggested by people who clearly don’t spend time with children in school.
I suppose there’s an argument for them arriving earlier? Kids are much more switched on in the morning.
An hour after lunch they all start crashing.
I don’t know why people are saying our school days are short. A few years ago I lived in Germany and kids we’re walking home from school at 12.30 I think they start earlier in the morning.

Most private schools round here finish much later than the state schools.

Teenagers finishing at 2:50 is ridiculous and they should be at school longer.

Obviously if the school aren't given funding to do extra activities it will be awful. If it means no home work then than can only be a good thing and will help kids that don't get much support at home

Private schools have longer days - but then they also have 9 weeks of summer holidays.

Teenagers finishing at 2:50 is ridiculous and they should be at school longer.

I think 2.50 is fine considering the shit tonne of homework they are given here.

Extending the day till 4 pm would be reasonable, even if the teachers just read a story to them and then discussed it. That would be a relaxing end to the school day.

@Backhills

They've long thought more hours at school (and therefore extended childcare) is a vote winner. That's all any of this is about.

👏🏼 👏🏼 .

I think it's a completely different discussion for primary and secondary for a start but in the private school I work in and my kids attended going on til 4.15 is completely fine and most want to stay til 5.30-6 to do all the extra sport, drama, ccf, d of e, etc. The difference is that classes are much smaller so teachers have a manageable work load. The state secondaries round here finish at 2.45. It's ridiculous.

Interesting the comments by people who said their primary school day was longer - but did you also have all the homework, tables and spellings to do?

My day at primary school was about 45 minutes longer that the primary my kids went to. But we had longer for lunch and break times so actually less teaching time. Homework was only ever spellings. The teachers spent less time telling children off though and actually teaching as most kids seemed to behave better ‘back in my day’
I’m not even that old

Extending the day till 4 pm would be reasonable, even if the teachers just read a story to them and then discussed it. That would be a relaxing end to the school day.

Especially for year 9s, the hormonal little buggers.

Also from the EEF study that DogOfDavid linked to.

How secure is the evidence?
The evidence is moderately secure. Decisions to lengthen the school year or school day are often one component of wider approaches to school reform. This makes attributing any learning gains to the additional time itself difficult. Gains are not consistent across studies, indicating that additional time alone is not enough — it must be used effectively. Discrete or targeted programmes are more likely to have been evaluated robustly than other ways of extending learning time, and even here there is substantial variation in impact.

Most of the evaluations of extending school time come from the USA. The reviews all note the need for more rigorous evaluations with outcome measures that demonstrate direct impact on learning. Evidence from the UK is relatively scarce.

I think more money needs investing int the Early Years to help close the gaps early on but it’s easier for schools to shove more support at the testing end of the schools, hothousing them rather than cementing the progress on the way.

As always, making what is measurable important because what is important can’t be measured.

Private school: 8 to 5

Maybe not possible in state schools for all sorts of reasons but was one of the reasons I chose it as worked out similar to childcare when they were young.

None of them had a meltdown from the length of the day.

Sounds like a lot of people are keen on the extra hour of childcare.

The point of extending the school day is to allow ‘catch up’ of missed learning. Reading a story for an hour as some have suggested isn’t really going to cut it - and if you think it will then why not do some extra story time at home instead?

I work in an independent school. The hours are 8:30-4:45 with enrichments from 4pm onwards. The difference is that parents can opt to pick up their dc at 3:15 (reception to Y3) or 4 if they wish. Bus children have to stay until the end. That includes reception aged kids.
My own dc had to stay until 4:45 most days and coped fine as the enrichment activities were stories, sport or art based.
I do think the state school day is pretty short and they've changed to a half day on a Friday where we live - I've no idea how they fit in the curriculum! We don't have any public holidays off and I think we have 5 days more summer holiday than the nearest state school.

It would be horrendous for my 10 year old who struggles as it is, asd and the school day already feels too long for him. They are tired anyway, grumpy etc, this would be really stressful for me and him.
High school finishes at different times here, ten to 3 3 days and ten to 4 2 days I think 4 is fine we finished at 1545 when I was at school.

@Rosesareyellow

Sounds like a lot of people are keen on the extra hour of childcare.

The point of extending the school day is to allow ‘catch up’ of missed learning. Reading a story for an hour as some have suggested isn’t really going to cut it - and if you think it will then why not do some extra story time at home instead?

You bet there are and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

In my educational utopia schools would be open 8-6 but not all lesson time... core hours the lesson stuff, 9-3ish like now, the rest free (or affordable) sports clubs, drama, music etc that are optional but cover the standard working day for parents. Run by separate staff, not teachers.

But that takes money...

This is what I would like too, the extension could be optional and for a small fee, free to children on pupil premium and who get the childcare element of tax credits. No homework except reading and perhaps timetable practice for primary age.

aroundtheworld

In my educational utopia schools would be open 8-6 but not all lesson time... core hours the lesson stuff, 9-3ish like now, the rest free (or affordable) sports clubs, drama, music etc that are optional but cover the standard working day for parents. Run by separate staff, not teachers.

This is an incredibly long day out of the house for a small child. It's 10 hours. I think it's sad that some parents like this idea. What about coming home and relaxing? A full day of school followed by enforced dancing/drama/music/art sounds hard work!

At secondary my school day was 8 to anywhere between 2 pm and 4 pm depending on rostering. Had the odd 8.50 start but that was rare. School days are definitely shorter here in the UK - but even in secondary I had nowhere near the masses of homework my DDs have had to cope with.

When I was at primary in the 80s 9-3:30 was standard, but we also had an hour lunch and 2 20minute breaks in the day. We also got no homework.
The local secondary did 8:45-3pm, but that was because they only gave them 20 minutes lunch. Apparently they tried longer but the local shops complained about the shoplifting. 🤣 Switching the problem to afterschool meant that they only had to pay security from 3pm.

I think the children need time off. I don't get the constant drive to get them in school more. Longer hours, shorten the summer holiday, don't start part time.

If they're going to invest money into education (because longer hours will mean more money) let's go for smaller class sizes. That will make far more difference to learning than having 30 exhausted children who hate school.