To find these headlines on the bbc website disturbing?

[malificent7]

So apparently the unvaccinated will be treated " differently."
I have both jabs, I agree with vaccination and think some reasons against vaccination are unscientific but I think it is very disturbing that our bodily autonomy and right to choose is being eroded.
Ok...I get that pregnant and elderly people should not be protected but if they are double jabbed what is the problem with coming into contact with the unvaccinated?
One of my closest mates had an extreme reaction to the vaccine...I had no issues at all but I dont feel comfortable with this.
I am no conspiracy theorist either.

It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian.

I honestly dread to think what hyperbolic terms you would apply to something that actually was any of those things.

We are literally creating a two tier society diving people based on the decisions they made over their own body. It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian
@Honey12346 I absolutely agree with this statement.
People shouldn't be pressured into getting a medical treatment so that they can get special privileges. Particularly as the government seems disinclined to acknowledge that there is natural immunity through actually recovering from the virus.

From their own article
"Yesterday, Lockdown Sceptics reported on the new data from Israel showing that the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against infection had dropped to 64% during the current Covid surge, down from 94% the previous month. (Effectiveness against serious disease held up much better.) Public Health England has already reported that the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine has dropped to 60% against the Delta variant. "

So it does prevent transmission in the vaccinated - just not as much as originally thought!

Interestingly the organisation's motto is:

"stay sceptical, control the hysteria, save lives' - now that approach would not have reduced the death rate/hospitalisations/transmission or opened up society - odd what people believe.

I can't medically have it. Nor can I wear a face mask or sheild. Or for that matter claim benefits anymore as my dr p/social worker/mental health team no longer sees me so I must be better, so being evicted too.

My neighbour has tested positive for covid and has been showing off about getting two free weeks holiday and everything he's going to do as he's been vaccinated so it doesn't matter, stood outside my door with a massive sign saying about being extremely vulnerable. Yesterday the person in front of me waiting for meds had tested positive and was chatting to their mate about how it's great because they get two weeks free holiday paid. She was there to get meds for her nasty cough but wanted to chat to pharmacist first, the friend told her not to say anything cos they'd get chucked out because people are still being silly, I stupidly said something and got a load of abuse.

I knew someone who had both vaccines, still got covid and died. Was a dr and not vulnerable in anyway.

Despair doesn't even cover it.

@AliceLivesHere
No I shared an article that I agree with the content of and so that others could read and consider. I didn't need to reinvent the wheel by typing all those thoughts out when it's clearly set out in that article.v

@snowballer

It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian.

I honestly dread to think what hyperbolic terms you would apply to something that actually was any of those things.

those are the soundbites that they use on the conspiracy anti lock down site - someone likes to watch YouTube and copy copy. Surprised the 'sheeple' word or 'face nappy' words haven't been used yet... there are a collection of words that these type of organisations use and you can spot the followers a mile off. I really wish they would stick to peer reviewed science though.

[quote Takingabreakagain]@AliceLivesHere
No I shared an article that I agree with the content of and so that others could read and consider. I didn't need to reinvent the wheel by typing all those thoughts out when it's clearly set out in that article.v[/quote]
It's not a research article though - it's a written piece from a Lockdown Sceptics' organisation!

Oh my!

You may as well share the YouTube looney collectives articles as well then!

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

People shouldn't be pressured into getting a medical treatment so that they can get special privileges.

It's not about getting special privileges, it's about keeping people safe. The government isn't saying "you must have the vaccine" they're saying "it's your choice, but private businesses (airplanes, concert venues, shops, sports stadiums etc.) don't have to admit you if they don't want to.

Choosing not to vaccinate isn't a protected status.

Many countries already require certain vaccines as a condition of entry - Hep A, Hep B and Yellow Fever, to name a few. COVID-19 will just be another vaccine on the list.

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Go back and read the thread. There have been many responses - read them.

@malificent7

It may make sense but the phrasing IS disturbing. " Will be treated differently." Words are powerful and manipulative. So now people who are not double jabbed have being " treated differently " to look forward to. A bit like the way some minority groups are treated by the home office.

No it isn't. Minority groups do not, as a rule, choose to be minorities. You, however, can choose whether you have the vaccine or not.

We are literally creating a two tier society diving people based on the decisions they made over their own body. It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian

No, we are not. We are trying to get back to some form of normality and those who are refusing to help us do so are creating a situation for themselves where they can't have everything they want. And then whining about tyranny and dystopia, like tiny trumpian babies.
You don't want the vaccine, fine. But it's what we all need to get our lives back. YOU are choosing not to join everyone else, YOU are creating the situation for yourselves. OWn it.

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Even paracetamol packages say they contain a risk of death.

Their may be a risk but that doesn’t mean that risk is significant. It isn’t, the risk of death from covid is much more significant.

@snowballer

It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian.

I honestly dread to think what hyperbolic terms you would apply to something that actually was any of those things.

What, like govt denying people the ability to work or see their family?

@AliceLivesHere
I didn't say it was a research article

Is it clear what he means by that statement yet? Is it just the self-isolation rules for fully vaccinated people and children? Because I think it does to some extent depend what he’s referring to.

I don’t think scrapping the self-isolation rules for the double-jabbed and children is that clever, given vaccinated people can clearly still spread it - and I definitely wouldn’t like to be an unvaccinated teacher at this point. But I think the way the change was trailed made it sound a lot more dramatic than it really was.

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Why should you have the right to spread a dangerous disease about the place that could kill me when there's a vaccine available to reduce the risk?

Everything has side effects. Even paracetamol can kill.

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

That's really fuzzy, so it's difficult to read.

It looks like it's saying 1332 deaths from 69 million doses? Nearly 42 million people?

Compare that with 5 million cases of covid in the UK and 128,000 deaths.

I know which odds I would rather take.

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Do you often drive a car? Cross a road? Get on a plane/train/bus with someone else at the controls who has your life in their hands? Do you take paracetamol/the Pill/any other bog standard medication?

Nothing (except perhaps, ironically, staying at home alone for ten days!) is safe. Everything comes with a risk. And even staying at home alone you could have a fire/trip over the cat and fall down the stairs/be knocked out by a saucepan falling down from a shelf. Everything has risk. You choose the risks you want to take according to the rewards they afford - this is just another risk assessment.

@gwenneh

But somehow this is different.

Yes, it is. It's the difference between public health and private medical decisions. Unless pregnancy has become a contagious condition with public health implications, comparing vaccines and abortions is a false equivalence.

This!! A million times this. How some here see fit to compare pregnancy and chickenpox to COVID is beyond reason.

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Because you want rights without taking any responsibility.

Not going into my thoughts on your screen shot.

@claralara42

We are literally creating a two tier society diving people based on the decisions they made over their own body. It's insane, tyrannical and dystopian

No, we are not. We are trying to get back to some form of normality and those who are refusing to help us do so are creating a situation for themselves where they can't have everything they want. And then whining about tyranny and dystopia, like tiny trumpian babies.
You don't want the vaccine, fine. But it's what we all need to get our lives back. YOU are choosing not to join everyone else, YOU are creating the situation for yourselves. OWn it.

"The bank robbers are keeping us hostage and demanding we give them all of our possessions in order to be released. Some hostages are refusing. THEY are the reason we cannot be released. If only they complied and we would get our life back. The bank robbers themselves are not out fault here for keeping us all hostage. This is entirely the non complying hostages fault and they should be punished. The bank robbers should give us complying hostages priveleges that the non complying ones got taken away. "

@Honey12346

This is from the govt website. Now can someone please give me a coherent response as to why I should not be given my pre march 2020 rights back for making a personal choice not to risk these side effects (which include death)?

Because your personal choice could lead to severe illness and death of many others.