To find these headlines on the bbc website disturbing?

[malificent7]

So apparently the unvaccinated will be treated " differently."
I have both jabs, I agree with vaccination and think some reasons against vaccination are unscientific but I think it is very disturbing that our bodily autonomy and right to choose is being eroded.
Ok...I get that pregnant and elderly people should not be protected but if they are double jabbed what is the problem with coming into contact with the unvaccinated?
One of my closest mates had an extreme reaction to the vaccine...I had no issues at all but I dont feel comfortable with this.
I am no conspiracy theorist either.

My issue with this is:

Cases are flying up still. Which means the jabbed can't be spreading it at a slower rate? Its no different now to when no one was jabbed.
New variants are not covered by the jab.

The only difference now is that the jabbed should be less likely to die.

So why would would quarantine be any different? It makes zero sense logically.

I think it'll be ever changing to be honest. Because it'll become apparent they are spouting nonsense when the cases are sky high when all this comes in.....

Cases are flying up still. Which means the jabbed can't be spreading it at a slower rate?

Well that’s a leap. Why do you think it’s being transmitted by the vaccinated as opposed to the unvaccinated? There seem to be many cases cropping up in schools. I also think a lot of people are probably done with the rules and are not willing to self isolate as they might have done last year which is enabling the spread.

@paintfairy

My issue with this is:

Cases are flying up still. Which means the jabbed can't be spreading it at a slower rate? Its no different now to when no one was jabbed.
New variants are not covered by the jab.

The only difference now is that the jabbed should be less likely to die.

So why would would quarantine be any different? It makes zero sense logically.

I think it'll be ever changing to be honest. Because it'll become apparent they are spouting nonsense when the cases are sky high when all this comes in.....

But daily cases are no where near as high, despite rising as shown in the second graph. This suggests less people are catching it, which would then suggest that vaccination is reducing the numbers. I don't have it to hand right now but the age demographic has changed too.

The deaths following covid also shows a huge drop from previous waves (graph 1) - no where near as many people. So yes, less people are becoming seriously ill and dying. Hospitalisation is lower, and the threshold for being admitting into hospital with covid is also lower now - people don't have to be as ill before they are admitted. The number of people needing serious care is reduced.

Case numbers alone aren't really a big issue so long as serious illness and death doesn't rise. Case numbers starting rising a while back now but deaths/serious illness hasn't risen in the same rate even allowing for a time lag. This suggests that the link between cases and deaths has been broken to a good extent.

So far the vaccines ARE holding up to Delta. They may not be quite as effective as they were against the previous variants but they are still making a difference.

I know I read in May/June that the average age of people testing positive for covid had dropped. By the end of May the average age was about 28/29y. Earlier in the year it was low 40s.

@MargaretThatcherMilkSnatcher Dear God it's not a race to the bottom

So you're not interested in hearing about anyone else's experience? Just talking about your own? My apologies, I didn't realise.

@Abraxan I agree cases aren't an issue as long as people aren't ill/dying.

But if the cases are generally not lower moving forwards then it doesn't indicate the vaccination is doing anything to stop the spread. So saying those people can move freely around just seems no more logical then letting anyone move freely around? If 100% of people are vaccinated and moving freely it would actually be worse than 25% of people being unvaccinated (and therefore restricted) as only 75% of people would be freely moving about in that case (and spreading). If you see what i mean?
Obviously if it later becomes apparent the vaccine stops spread (won't really know that until younger people are done) then that's a different scenario.

@Abraxan

I find it disturbing OP. It's basically making people reveal part of their health status

No one seemed too concerned when the CEV and CV people were expected to declare their health status in order to shield or work from home to protect themselves during the previous lockdowns.

Wonder if the same people complaining that someone knowing they are vaccinated or not we're equally as concerned when it was vulnerable people being expected to declare their medical conditions, and often far more personal information then whether they'd be jabbed or not!

Apparently if we bring this up it's a 'race to the bottom'.

@paintfairy It's very clear that vaccine is working and reducing transmission.

COVID Symptom Study: Estimated Active Cases Per 100,000 by age in June

Paint fairy - but the number of cases during this wave are much lower than during previous waves, before the vaccines were rolled out. We can see on the graphs that the current numbers, despite rising for a good while now, have not risen anywhere near as high nor as quickly as previously.

Also the age of those testing positive has reduced a lot - in May the average age of those testing positive had dropped to 28/29y. At that point those would be people who had not been vaccinated, or had only one vaccine.

Of course some older people will still catch covid - no vaccine is 100% effective and for some elderly and vulnerable people their health conditions means it can't be as effective due to issues with their immune systems. However, data has shown that the older ages are now testing positive less often/in lower numbers.

On another thread you can see a graph showing the demographic of those testing positive. This showed that children are a growing group, again - all unvaccinated - and young people - only just getting first vaccines.

JesusintheCabbageVan

Doesn't surprise me with some posters.

They didn't care when it wasn't them facing the greater restrictions.

They only care now it's them who might have the harsher restrictions and despite this being a consequence of their own choice (unlike those who are CV/CEV who almost certainly haven't chosen to have their health conditions.)

What do people expect if they refuse to be jabbed? I could have visited Cambodia if I hadn't had a yellow fever jab - same deal it's on them

What grates me is there's a whole load of people who have had covid and have natural antibodies and are fine... Yet we still have to somehow get vaccinations.

[quote roguetomato]@paintfairy It's very clear that vaccine is working and reducing transmission.

COVID Symptom Study: Estimated Active Cases Per 100,000 by age in June[/quote]
But it doesn’t stop it altogether which is why most of the deaths Nowadays are people who have been vaccinated.

Being vaccinated protects people but it doesn’t stop you being ill completely, nor does it stop you from transmitting the disease to other people. It only makes it less likely yiswim

I am parent to three young adults, one is still waiting for his first jab, two are waiting for their second. All signed up and booked as soon as they were able. All three work on hospitality over the summer to support themselves in higher education. All three will be deleting the app and giving false details from 19th July as will many of their contemporaries (unless through place of work)They’ve had enough and I don’t blame them. If numbers are to be believed they will be subject to multiple isolations after coming in contact with people despite not having it/symptoms. They have had shit years at respective unis sat in their rooms and won’t be spending the summer sat in their rooms. Unless they have symptoms/test positive they won’t be isolating and they won’t be the only ones.

[quote Reallybadidea]**@Reallybadidea, I think you omitted the last bit of your sentence about Pfizer/Israel. "not working as well ON THE DELTA VARIANT BUT STILL PREVENTING SERIOUS ILLNESS"

You're welcome.

@Geamhradh You've mis-@-ed me.[/quote]
Sorry! it was obviously meant for the conspiracy theorist you had @'d.

They cannot mandate the vaccine as it is still experimental until 2023... media scare mongering as usual to push as many people to have it. It is a personal choice and no one else's business

I don’t see the logic behind lots of things that Gov has said in the last 15 months.
From Aug fully vaccinated people don’t have to isolate, why is not the same for non vaccinated people if they provide a negative PCR? It should be exactly the same, you don’t have Covid get on with life.
I feel force to get vaccinated and punished if I don’t.
I do take care of myself and others but my mind says not to trust in the vaccines yet, they have developed them too fast and they DO NOT know side effect that might
Appear in long term in our bodies, like what if in 3or 5 years they found out people developing diabetes or kidney failure or cancer or I don’t know what and all was due to the vaccines? I feel we are all guinea pigs in these and that it is why I am so frustrated. I had covid, I have antibodies but still have to have the vaccine if I want to get on with life.
Why not to Have PCR for everyone travelling back or when in contact with a positive regardless vaccine or not and isolate only when necessary? because the vaccines DOESN’T stop transmission, reduces the strength but still can pass it to others.

It was said we won’t reach herd immunity ever with a changing virus which is normal.
I won’t have the experimental jab, risks of devastating side effects including death is too high a price. 62% of people hospitalised with COVID recently had both jabs. You can still get it or pass it on so I say a definite no.

I agree with you OP. So much for a democracy! I know plenty of people who have been double vaxxed who have still caught it and passed it on, including teachers who have therefore resulted in classes being sent home.

Ok...I get that pregnant and elderly people should not be protected but if they are double jabbed what is the problem with coming into contact with the unvaccinated?

I am CEV and fully vaccinated. I still caught covid and although I wasn’t hospitalised, it was still VERY unpleasant. You are looking at this the wrong way. I fully agree with the vaccination program and I’m sorry if this offends, but everyone knows the severity of this virus and has the choice of taking the vaccines offered. People who choose not to take up the offer are putting themselves at risk and relying on other vaccinated people to keep them safe. So they should be treated differently and no, it’s not the same as the treatment of minority groups, because the different treatment is as a consequence of a conscious decision.

@Lucyk1. Having had Covid doesn’t necessarily mean you are protected, and at the moment it’s not known how long any protection lasts - could only be three months, so vaccination is necessary. Also CEV people don’t necessarily develop antibodies, so have no immunity despite having had the disease.

@Abraxan. You make a good point. I am CEV and due to various problems I have difficulty with masks, so hardly ventured out until I was fully vaccinated. The first and only time I then visited a supermarket without a mask, despite being in a wheelchair, I was challenged by a member of staff, who demanded to know why I was exempt. I attempted to explain that they had no right to ask me to disclose my private and confidential medical information - I produced the government letter confirming this but it made no difference. In the end I left without doing any shopping, while other shoppers stood tutting in disapproval. I hear more and more people complaining that they shouldn’t be asked if they are vaccinated because it’s an invasion of privacy, but if you’re disabled and exempt from wearing a mask somehow it’s OK to probe and humiliate, even when it’s clear that no rules are being broken.

@pam290358 Well said.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan. These are the same type of people who delight in challenging people parking in disabled car parks. You wouldn’t believe the number of people who’ve taken it on themselves to police the car park, before I’ve even opened the door, with the usual ‘you don’t look very disabled’ comment. I smile sweetly and ask them how disabled do they think I should look, get my crutches, hobble to the back door and watch their faces as the automatic hoist swings my wheelchair to the ground. Grovelling apologies are usually met with a cold stare as I trundle away.

@Lucyk1

What grates me is there's a whole load of people who have had covid and have natural antibodies and are fine... Yet we still have to somehow get vaccinations.

I don't understand what you mean be 'and yet we still have to somehow get vaccines'

There is no issue with the how (if in England) - it's very very easy to get the vaccines in England. Turn up at a walk in, make an appointment via the nhs app. You can often get done next day. Anyone aged 18+ could get a vaccine this week if they wanted to.

FWIW I have had covid and still have natural virus acquired irked antibodies (well I did have about 3 weeks ago when tested, 7+ months since the infection) but I have had both vaccines as well, and will get a booster in the autumn. No issues with either vaccine.