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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to keep my dd off on sports day

104 replies

Goldenfan · 06/07/2021 12:06

Hi,

My dd who is nearly 8 has autism. She has her struggles in school and does cry a lot there.

The last couple of sports days I have attended (pre covid) she has basically cried the whole time. She was even running the races crying.
I was there to reassure her but its difficult to comfort her anyway. School still made her take part.

This year no parents are allowed due to covid. I won't be there to encourage.

Part of me thinks she is in desperate need of resilience building and what better way than to do things you may not like. She can also often cry to get out of things she needs to do...eg tidy up. I don't want to single her out and school are unsupportive of her needs so would not agree to this or for her to sit out.

Dd cries anyway in school so is this any different? She does very little actual exercise but is healthy.

I'm in two minds. If I was there to watch I could support her and pull her out if she was really struggling. I hate the thought of her sat crying throughout.

Has anyone got a child that skips this sort of thing. Should I be encouraging participation.

Thanks

OP posts:
iamtopazmortmain · 07/07/2021 09:40

Keeping your child off for sports day is not telling them they can skip anything they don't like. I think all children should do PE - it should encourage them to be more active and support good health. However Sports Day is not just a lesson. In many schools it is a whole afternoon or day where children are made to perform in front of the audience of the whole school and often parents. It can be a humiliating experience for many - often with a total lack of empathy from those organising the day or from those kids who are good at soprt.

I am all for encouraging hidren to have a go. To persevere if they fail. But if you know you will always be last in the race - and by some distance - then it does nothing for your well being. There is a huge difference between trying hard in PE and having a go in front of your classmates, and by being made to take part in sports day.

Sports day is great for kids at athletics. It does not showcase the kids with talents in other sports, or in other subjects.

Goldenfan · 07/07/2021 09:59

Everyone is right.

I didn't really like school sport as such but I was good at it and fast so was picked for the races so I didn't have that same dread.

Its awful really that we are still insisting on this practice.

Give my dd a broken piece of machinery to fix and rebuild, a building to draw plans for and design or some building materials and shes will give you a masterpiece. Wish architecture and design days were a thing Grin

OP posts:
LittleOwl153 · 07/07/2021 10:00

That Little Miss Emotional certificate would have had me straight to the head teachers office. How dare they!

You can force the EHCP application by applying yourself. You may not succeed but it will make them sit up and have to answer questions.

I would seriously look at changing schools if there is another reasonably close. She is already coping with one hell of a lot for someone so small. Have an eye to the next phase too. That first year in secondary is so very important for these kids.

Goldenfan · 07/07/2021 10:12

Just had a Google of the NAS schools. This would suit my dd definitely. The nearest to us is 1.5 hours away but we would bloody move area if we got her a place.

OP posts:
NotPersephone · 07/07/2021 10:32

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SleepingStandingUp · 07/07/2021 10:45

@Goldenfan

Hi *@sleeponeday* I'm not sure what your acronyms mean (NAS?) and how I would go about getting private support. Please could you advise if you don't mind. It would be really helpful as I feel we have been massively let down by the nhs.

My dd is academically average and is actually really scared and anxious to break the rules at school so is a bit of a yes child at school and the teachers find her easy as she will just do as she's told without question and is quite quiet and keeps herself to herself. So they won't see the need for an ehcp and we don't have one.

The senco basically told me that there is nothing "wrong" with my dd after spending 10 minutes with her.
She later gave all the dc award certificates like little miss crafty, little mr sporty and little miss princess, all the kids came running out with them excited and happily showing them off......my dd got little miss emotional. (I cried secretly in the car that day).

Jesus Christ she needs sacking
Deadleaf29 · 07/07/2021 11:30

I’d have made a formal complaint about the “Miss emotional” thing, if necessary up to the governors and it would feature in my comments on any ofsted inspection - she’s bullying and belittling your child. For a senco particularly, but really for any teacher, or bluntly any adult, that’s disgusting behaviour.

I know you say she won’t cope with a change of school, and she shouldn’t have to, but honestly the impact of this stuff on her mental health must be horrendous. I’d really seriously think about moving.

Wellpark · 07/07/2021 11:41

I'd have wiped the floor with her giving a child 'little miss emotional'!!! Bloody awful 😣 and yes, keep your DD home on sports day. Let her have a lovely day with you instead 💚

ThePontiacBandit · 07/07/2021 12:25

I echo the thoughts that it should be a day off. My DD is delighted her sports day is cancelled.

Can I recommend “The Explosive Child” by Ross Greene? It’s incredibly helpful at identifying triggers and supporting children with additional needs (regardless of diagnosis). We’ve used it for DD (who I believe has ASD, I do but who functions “too well” in school to get assessed) and it’s really helped us all. Using it we’ve managed to overhaul bed times so she’s sleeping better. Going to sleep earlier and not having to be dragged out of bed in the morning. She’s happier in herself too. In February, we were all exhausted and lost in how to meet DD’s needs. Now things are much, much better.

beentoldcomputersaysno · 07/07/2021 12:27

Little Miss emotional? FFS that's awful.

sleeponeday · 07/07/2021 12:51

@Goldenfan I was you, with my youngest. I thought the NHS would help us and I thought if the school kept insisting I needed a parenting course, they must be right.

They were not right. Our reports, which we eventually commissioned in sheer desperation, uncovered a huge range of issues nobody had suspected - issues the GP used to get NHS referrals, and then additional diagnoses - and we now have a very high needs EHCP for him.

I will PM you. I'm so angry for the kids that it comes down to parents, because they then have their provision solely relying on parents who not only know what to do, but who are willing and able to do it - but at least there is a pathway, even if hidden.

sleeponeday · 07/07/2021 12:57

Incidentally, hyper-compliance is a known way some autistic kids cope in school. My son's also a 'yes' child.

Schools almost always assess a child's autism not by how it affects the child, but how it affects the teacher. They will pronounce that 'severe' autism means a behavioural problem they need to deal with, and not a psychological one the child silently internalises. And then they happily pronounce that our kids are the ones who lack empathy. Hmm

Zari29 · 07/07/2021 12:59

Yanbu, keep her off. She can learn resilience in other ways, not something that is so distressing for her. And with an unsupported school structure you can be sure they won't be making her feel less stressed in any way.

lollipoprainbow · 07/07/2021 13:18

@sleeponeday sorry to jump on the post but I'm in the same boat too ! The school are pretty useless. Any advice would be amazing.

Tal45 · 07/07/2021 13:23

Jesus, forget taking her out of sports day I'd take her out that school. You say she wouldn't cope with a new school but she's not coping now by the sounds of it. She needs a really kind, supportive environment (I know plenty of schools that pretend to have this so you really need to ask some difficult questions). She needs somewhere that is really well equipped to support children with SEN and has a really good track record.

Making a child do something they really hate over and over isn't going to teach them to be resilient it will just make them desperately unhappy, to learn resilience they need support to help them find ways to overcome their fear/anxiety or whatever is making it an unbearable experience IMO. I'd take her out if you have no reason to think that anything will be different this year then why put her through it? xxx

Tal45 · 07/07/2021 13:27

@sleeponeday

Incidentally, hyper-compliance is a known way some autistic kids cope in school. My son's also a 'yes' child.

Schools almost always assess a child's autism not by how it affects the child, but how it affects the teacher. They will pronounce that 'severe' autism means a behavioural problem they need to deal with, and not a psychological one the child silently internalises. And then they happily pronounce that our kids are the ones who lack empathy. Hmm

Mine is a yes child too and had the same issue with sports day. I knew he desperately didn't want to do it but when the teacher put him on the spot he said he was happy to do it.

Some teachers seem to think that if a child isn't behaving in stereotypically autistic ways at any given moment then they're fine, it's so frustrating.

Isitpossi · 07/07/2021 13:28

Yanbu

SamusIsAGirl · 07/07/2021 14:10

Keep her off.
It's a day when other than the events, no actual teaching or learning is taking place. My oldest has ASD but he is planning on going to his Sports Day tomorrow to give it a go. I did have the talk with both DCs that if they want out of Sports Day they can, so I think knowing they have a back-up has given them more confidence in that.

beautifullymad · 07/07/2021 14:23

I have two autistic children. We always missed sports day, always. My eldest is in his 20's.

It's so just damaging.

Take them out of school for the day and do something to make happy memories. This will build them up for other things. You'll do more good to their well being.

Schools like to insist parents conform so not to affect ofsted.
I was 'that mother' and I firmly told the head master or mistress exactly why I was taking the action I did. I didn't hide the fact I knew they couldn't be properly inclusive and protect vulnerable children. They just didn't have to resources to do it.

Sports day is set up to value those who can do sports and understand being part of a team. Not things that autistic children often excel in. Throw the changing of routine, going to school in PE kit and not doing lessons, then the humiliation and failure at events, plus being outside for long stretches and light and noise sensitivity. It's a living nightmare of a day for many autistic children.

Pull them out without a second thought and enjoy local places whilst it's quiet.

Goldenfan · 07/07/2021 14:24

@sleeponeday its a really lonely place to be isn't it.
No one agrees with me most of the time about her needs. I often ask why on earth I would put myself and her through this if it wasn't true? Why would I make issues up. There is no gain for me to make me lie. Anyone how has experience of this system would laugh at that...no one would voluntarily put themselves through this shit show. Even my own family feel that way which is disappointing. It often feels like that and it feels like its me against everyone else. But I do it for my dd and always will.

OP posts:
sleeponeday · 07/07/2021 15:46

[quote lollipoprainbow]@sleeponeday sorry to jump on the post but I'm in the same boat too ! The school are pretty useless. Any advice would be amazing. [/quote]
Absolutely happy to. All the things I now know, I learned from other parents. It's about finding that network and locking into it, and I wish to God there was a way to do that without going through what you have to, first, to locate that tribe also in the trenches.

There are two excellent charities that help (I would avoid SENDIASS like the plague, personally - independent, my backside. They told me, and three other parents, we'd never get EHCPs. All of us have, all at high needs levels. Trained and funded by LAs.)

IPSEA

SOSSEN!

By parents and adult autistics, for parents and adult autistics.

I'll message you later with my recommendations for private clinicians. All are excellent clinicians, but also excellent and expert with Tribunals - having reports from them means most LAs will back down, because they know they will lose at any Hearing, unless you are seeking a really expensive special school (they usually still lose, if you have the evidence to support it, but it's way more stressful and takes longer than with good legal advice). I'd also recommend, if you can afford a lawyer - lots of people can't and still win, so don't panic - that you use a Direct Access barrister. They don't charge for emails (within reason!) just work actually done. And they are happy to do the tough parts, but not the donkey work, which also saves money over a solicitor. In my view you gain from:

  1. a conference to discuss all the reports, a draft EHCP if one has been issued, and what to do next, right at the start.
  2. the barrister drafting the formal Grounds for Appeal for you, so they can make it really tight and effective
  3. the barrister representing you at any Hearing and cross examining the LA witnesses.

Having said that MOST parents who reach Tribunal - and most don't, as it is settled before - do NOT have a lawyer, yet 94% still win.

If you 'just' (ha!) want more support in school, the key is to get reports saying it's needed, and what it should look like, and then to get an EHCP that says that. They are often chocolate teapots and drafted like a list of friendly suggestions, which can then be ignored as they aren't enforceable. It's against the law for them to be that way. They must be Specific (what must be done, when, for how long a session, by whom, and for how many weeks/months), Measurable (what is the outcome meant to be, and how can you measure whether it's achieved?) Achievable (targets that are impossible are worthless and demoralising) Relevant (does this target or outcome actually matter to the child's development?) and Timely (there should be a set date when it is meant to be achieved).

EHCPs must, by law, specify each and every one of a child's needs in Section B. Must. All of them. That's why good expert reports are so important. And then, also by law, Section F must - MUST - have provision for all the needs B establishes. But you can get wishy washy provision and unless a report specifies what needs to happen in precise terms, you can't insist on eg 40 mins a week of direct OT or SLT. A report by an excellent OT or SLT, and you can - and NHS and LA professionals aren't allowed to make those specified recommendations. All they are allowed to mandate are things schools have to do, so some TA can try to do a bit of OT with access to a phone line. Which is parlously inadequate.

Some charities offer free assessments for people on very low incomes, and I believe some legal aid is sometimes available, and same. There are also some free clinics across the country for training students, who will provide reports at a private level (we have one such amazing clinic and reports, which is a huge relief). But on the whole, parents who want to get their kids properly supported have to be rich, or have to be in debt. We are not poor, yet we are in the second camp. We use 0% credit cards and just shuffle that debt across to new deals when it comes close to the end of the promotional period, while paying it down as fast as we can. Moneysavingexpert saved my children's sanity and education with that trick, essentially. Thank you, Mr Martin Lewis!

I will PM anyone who wants - or you can PM me - with the recs for experts, and also with the name of our amazing barrister. She loves it when I give people free advice from what I've learned from her, too - she used to head a charity for kids excluded for SEN so she is driven by real passion for what she does. She's ranked Tier 1 in the Legal 500, which is a very big deal in legal terms, and OFSTED instruct her in very tricky cases, yet she charges hugely less than a local provincial SEN solicitor.

Finally, the LA can be allies. They have no money - that's why they are so hardball at Tribunals - but they care, in my experience. I love our LA despite going to Tribunals against them and dealing with shenanigans. That relationship is valuable because I can trust them if a school fails to comply with the EHCP. When a school messed one of mine around, the LA contacted the Inclusion Team for me and so pressure was applied by them, me and Inclusion - the school started co-operating. They are just doing what they have to, because the government underfund them so badly that if every kid got what they needed, the LAs would all go bankrupt. So don't take it personally - but also, don't forget that your child has you as their sole advocate. You are the only person who can ensure they have a chance to thrive in adult life, instead of being a recluse, or abused. Never feel bad for fighting for them - that's our job description, and if you are patient, polite and reasonable with the LA and clear that you will never stop advocating for your child, believe me, they respect you for it. More than one has told me that the kids they really fear for are the ones whose parents don't care. You need to be what a doctor friend of mine calls 'a velvet bulldozer'.

Happy to help anyone at all who PMs me. I have lost count of the number of people I have PM'd on here in the last decade to see help and support myself - there s a quiet Freemasonry of parents of SEN kids. I was helped by those who have been through this and that's how I found out what to do next, and I would always welcome paying forward the huge support and help that I have been given. My inbox is always there to anyone who would like a steer.

sleeponeday · 07/07/2021 15:49

Sorry my lovely, I just typed that monster post, and saw you updated. And yes, it's very lonely indeed - fellow parents have been a godsend. Are you a member of a local, county-wide Facebook page for ASD? They can be brilliant at forging those supportive friendships with parents who get it. People who you'd be friends with anyway, but who can understand what is, after all, a huge part of your life.

Will PM you now.

I forgot to link SOSSEN in: sossen.org.uk

NotPersephone · 07/07/2021 16:25

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Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 07/07/2021 16:48

Definitely skip it. Sport should be for fun and fitness. She's not having fun and missing one sports day is hardly going to impact her overall fitness significantly.

Separately, have you thought about her maybe doing an out-of-school sport or activity to help with her fitness and build up her confidence? Something fun where she could progress at her own pace?

lollipoprainbow · 07/07/2021 16:52

@sleeponeday wow thanks so much it's nice to get some helpful advice for a change !!