Sending my kids to alternate childcare because provider won't have vaccine

[Mummyandthree]

My kids are currently having to isolate because their childminder and partner have tested positive for covid. In chatting childminder has said she won't be having the vaccine because she believes it does more harm than good.

My parents are mega annoyed with this (older grandparents) and they've made their thoughts known, I also don't actually need to use her services anymore but as she is an old friend I have been doing because I felt bad removing them altogether.

Just not sure if I'm being an idiot over it? I mean does it matter if she doesn't get vaccinated? It's her choice. But as she comes into contact with loads of different kids and doesn't know if any of these kids family members are vulnerable isn't that wrong? Surely she has a duty of care to the kids and their families.

@User24689

I do apologise for coming in strong on this thread but the idea that people lose their jobs over this issue (and with such vitriol) is so concerning to those of us who are frankly afraid of either option.

Absolutely

Freedom to choose is a right to fight for, whether agreeing with an individual choice or not.

There are good reasons for both getting the vaccine and feeling hesitant.

Don't doubt yourself so much, just keep reading and updating your knowledge as you go.

She sounds as thick as mince YANBU

I'd not want my child care provider to be unvaccinated because there are implications for the health of her charges and their families.

When I started PG teacher training, I had to show a clean chest xray and my BCG vaccination certificate. It was a condition of the job; just like doctors today are required to prove regular Hep B vaccination to protect patients and colleagues from hazards of the job.

@User24689

Just really upset and frustratedat being constantly referred to as 'dim' when I actually have 2 degrees and just look into every decision carefully. I have 3 young children. Am I an idiot to question this stupid government on this? I appreciate you trying to educate me on the data. But a lot of people to call this approach thick have never even looked at the data

Your not an idiot or thick just need to research proper data sources yourself.

I would say risk of death is extremely low but risk of long covid is quite high (I think current data is stating 4/10) if you catch covid.

I'm 3 months into long covid and have built up to caring for my toddler a grand total of 2 hours on my own. I'm 35 and honestly the fatigue, constant fevers, headaches etc are debilitating.

Please also look into long covid risk it's not pleasant, I can't take my son to the park and there is extremely limited support as they simply don't know how to treat it. I'm still off work like thousands of others. Early data shows liklihood of long covid is reduced as chance of infection is reduced especially with Pfizer double dose.

By all means make a decision which is best for you but there are also other elements which you should consider in making your decision.

Just want to say to User that I get where you are coming from. I don't want the vaccine currently, but I don't want to tell anybody this for fear of being labelled an anti-vaxxer. Frankly I don't care what people choose to do with their bodies, but it is their choice and not anybody else's. I have had vaccines in the past and so have my kids, I just don't want this one - yet. I'm breastfeeding too and have blood clotting in the family, which I think is reasonable.

I also want to wait a while to see what the vaccine does to fetuses in the early stage of pregnancy which may not be apparent for a while as the vaccine has only become available for women of childbearing age recently. I'm not TTC, just curious.

@Kanaloa

Also your child will come into contact with other children, whose parents may or may not be vaccinated.

Yes but this is someone she knows rejects science and she has the option to keep them away, surely you can see the difference.

@Albien

Imo people working in caring professions who have contact with vulnerable people should be legally required to get vaccinated. I would remove my child because she’s clearly prioritising her own feelings over the safety of the children she looks after, and she probably does that all the time not just in this situation.

Nursery staff have left in droves over the past year, they’ll be none left if you force vaccinations. The £9 an hour probably isn’t worth the attitude towards them.

Nobody is forcing vaccinations, just making choices about who cares for their child.

The same rights that apply to whether you get vaccinated or not. Those rights.

I strongly disagree with making “them” have the vaccine (carers, HCP, teachers, etc). If someone genuinely believes that NONE of the available vaccines against COVID are safe, then they shouldn’t be in a position of choosing career vs (perceived) health risk. I find it pretty awful breach of their rights.

I’ve had my vaccine, and think less of people who refuse it, particularly those who are happy to free-ride off other people’s risk. However it is absolutely your right to refuse any medical intervention.

@Scottishskifun I'm really sorry you have been so ill, that sounds awful.

When you say I need to research proper data sources myself though, what do you mean?

The data sources ive used are ONS data and the government's own vaccine reporting data. If those aren't proper data sources then why, and can you point me in the direction of the data I should be referring to? Genuine question, not trying to be arsey.

I've found it really hard to know where to look for information and when I've asked others they haven't known (these have always been people who have had the vaccine too). The only people I know who have actually gone through the data are people who have gone on to decide they don't want it which doesn't fill me with confidence.

Re: free riding off others risk, I do agree with this and I do feel bad about it. Though obviously I would not expect or want anyone else to have it to benefit me, and in fact have felt nervous on behalf of friends or family who have had it. It's the only reason I've considered having it though, that and the societal pressure/ abuse.

That last bit was for @Saz12, sorry.

But yes I am the sort of person who does worry what others think of me so the idea people may think less of me really worries me. It's also really upsetting because it feels like every other sacrifice I've made for covid 19 is cancelled out by this one decision. My cousin has taken no notice of covid and has regularly had friends over etc. He was actually at a party in a field broken up by police last year, during the first lockdown. But he's had his vaccine and my mum was saying how proud she is of him, while showing extreme disdain for the fact that I don't want it despite me being the one that has followed the rules the whole way along.

To be fair if she's covid positive now she'll have a decent level of immunity now. Won't escape the close contact isolations tho

Thing is, if she's actually got Covid now, she'll have immunity going forward. Maybe not full immunity long term, but then the vaccine doesn't give that, either.

Errr you do realise there are loads of people right now who are vaccinated and have covid don't you?

Are you going to be keeping your kids away from other kids, because they are unvaccinated?

You are being an idiot.

@User24689 so the zoe app has lots of research articles which use real life users data including on information like long covid, side effects and vaccinations they also have a lot of podcasts.

If breastfeeding then the breastfeeding drug network has up to date studies and information on it about vaccines and breastmilk antibodies

Also the British medical journal has lots of up to date studies using research both large and small dataset studies on vaccines, side effects, transmission risks etc.

Using raw stats without having the background data isn't a good idea unless it shows any related factors or additional information which it's unlikely to do publicly in the interest of ethics.

Thanks it's pretty rubbish and took me by surprise to say I was fit and healthy is an understatement I walked 5 miles a day and paddleboarded twice a week etc. Unfortunately I've learnt that it's pot luck and actually being female mid 30s is more likely to have long covid!