Sending my kids to alternate childcare because provider won't have vaccine

[Mummyandthree]

My kids are currently having to isolate because their childminder and partner have tested positive for covid. In chatting childminder has said she won't be having the vaccine because she believes it does more harm than good.

My parents are mega annoyed with this (older grandparents) and they've made their thoughts known, I also don't actually need to use her services anymore but as she is an old friend I have been doing because I felt bad removing them altogether.

Just not sure if I'm being an idiot over it? I mean does it matter if she doesn't get vaccinated? It's her choice. But as she comes into contact with loads of different kids and doesn't know if any of these kids family members are vulnerable isn't that wrong? Surely she has a duty of care to the kids and their families.

If you are not comfortable sending your children there and don't need to, then you don't need to send them. Childminders are in short supply, so I'm sure she won't be put out for too long if you give her decent notice.

You can't dictate what other should put in their body though, so it's not up to her to have the vaccine so she can keep looking after your child, it's for you to find another provider you are comfortable with. The ball is in your court on this one.

So she’s a science denier not just a vaccine hesitant bin her off
Hopefully she’ll come out of her Covid experience unscathed but I also hope she reflects on it and realises that she could’ve avoided getting it and impacting on her ability to do her job and avoided disruption to other families if she’d had it.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

GabriellaMontez I repeat: you don't know what you're talking about. Hopefully everyone else reading the thread will see that, too.

Are you still denying that infection confers good immunity?

Are you an anti vaxxer too? Flat earther?

@chickenyhead in what way we're they not caused by the vaccine, can you explain what you mean by that?

They happened after the vaccine but not necessarily because of the vaccine. A lot of people in that catchment were elderly, infirm in ant event. Correlation is not causation.

Is this genuinely news to you or are you being deliberately obtuse?

@scottishskifun I have literally worked it out from the government's own published data, not just my own maths. In what way is it not full reporting? When will the reporting be 'full' so I can apparently be sure of the figures? Did 1398 people die, or didn't they? How was the 1 in 345,000 for AZ calculated if not deaths vs doses?

Sounds like covid drama seeking. Yawn .
Why don't you wait and see if it causes any problems first then make your decision?

@chickenyhead but covid deaths are reported the same way, no? Within 28 days of a positive test? My dad had a heart attack last year. He was tested for covid whilst in hospital. Had it been positive, he would have died within 28 days of a positive covid test and been a covid death. Thankfully, he was just a heart attack death so there was no need to worry.

@User24689 these are deaths recorded within 28 days of having the vaccine. They are far from proven to have been caused by the vaccine.

Thousands of people will die every year within 28 days of eating a cheese sandwich. Doesn’t mean cheese sandwiches are dangerous.

The yellow card data is there so that causation can be investigated. You have misunderstood the data.

[quote User24689]@chickenyhead in what way we're they not caused by the vaccine, can you explain what you mean by that?[/quote]
Yellow card reporting is done automatically for any death within 28 days so that further investigation can take place in order to ascertain if the vaccine was the CAUSE or Contributing Factor. It is automatically reported by authorities but then investigation is undertaken.
The majority of the deaths on yellow card will not be as a result of the vaccination but due to the number of days will still be reported.

It's much like putting covid on a death certificate if someone has been hit by a car but had a positive test in the last 14 days. They didn't die from covid. Hence the UK statistics authority requested deaths are reported properly.

I suggest understanding more of statistics how they work and the yellow card system. Hence using your own maths doesn't work and you need to use proper sources for data which actually are far far lower then your maths 😉

[quote User24689]@chickenyhead but covid deaths are reported the same way, no? Within 28 days of a positive test? My dad had a heart attack last year. He was tested for covid whilst in hospital. Had it been positive, he would have died within 28 days of a positive covid test and been a covid death. Thankfully, he was just a heart attack death so there was no need to worry.[/quote]
Covid deaths are adjusted to exclude RTAs etc. Lots also die after 28 days.

Bless you.

Ok so basically what you're saying is, I need to take the 1 on 50,000 deaths within 28 days of a covid test, and the 1 in 140,000 deaths of a healthy 35 year old from covid and take the vaccine on the basis that they eventually investigate the vaccine deaths and find out that, actually they were coincidental. Why am I 'thick' and 'selfish' to want to wait for that reassurance?

Sorry, meant 1 in 50,000 from vaccine above obviously

You don't have to take the vaccine at all.

Ever.

But be careful what misinformation you spread.

@User24689

Ok so basically what you're saying is, I need to take the 1 on 50,000 deaths within 28 days of a covid test, and the 1 in 140,000 deaths of a healthy 35 year old from covid and take the vaccine on the basis that they eventually investigate the vaccine deaths and find out that, actually they were coincidental. Why am I 'thick' and 'selfish' to want to wait for that reassurance?

Saying that 1 in 50,000 is wrong and use a proper reliable source and not maths from yellow card system.

Just really upset and frustratedat being constantly referred to as 'dim' when I actually have 2 degrees and just look into every decision carefully. I have 3 young children. Am I an idiot to question this stupid government on this? I appreciate you trying to educate me on the data. But a lot of people to call this approach thick have never even looked at the data

You have no right to even enquire about her vaccination history, I actually think many posters will be shocked at how many NHS staff declined it, would that mean you would refuse medical treatment if you were aware? No of course you would not.

When your kids go to school they will pick every bug under the sun up, Yabu &@Mummyandthree but i understand.

By the way, I have never spread this info. I only told one person in real life that I was reticent to get the vaccine and they told me that people like me could expect bricks through our windows. Why would I admit it now?

@Zarene

Absolutely.

Partly because she poses a higher risk to your children by not being jabbed, partly because she has shown that she has poor risk assessment and concern for others which would make me concerned about other aspects of her care.

I disagree, she has clearly assessed the risk, an vaccine still in the trial stages with no knowledge of long term damage or immunity.

@User24689

Just really upset and frustratedat being constantly referred to as 'dim' when I actually have 2 degrees and just look into every decision carefully. I have 3 young children. Am I an idiot to question this stupid government on this? I appreciate you trying to educate me on the data. But a lot of people to call this approach thick have never even looked at the data

You aren't thick. You are a concerned parent doing your best.

The government has not presented any data in easily accessible format throughout and has backtracked several times.

You aren't required to have the vaccine and you aren't a bad person for not doing so. You also aren't thick by trying to find the truth the government tries to minimise. But you do need to be wary of what you spread as fact.

@User24689

By the way, I have never spread this info. I only told one person in real life that I was reticent to get the vaccine and they told me that people like me could expect bricks through our windows. Why would I admit it now?

The person who said that to you is foolish and narrow minded.

@User24689

Ok so basically what you're saying is, I need to take the 1 on 50,000 deaths within 28 days of a covid test, and the 1 in 140,000 deaths of a healthy 35 year old from covid and take the vaccine on the basis that they eventually investigate the vaccine deaths and find out that, actually they were coincidental. Why am I 'thick' and 'selfish' to want to wait for that reassurance?

I think throwing around words like ‘thick’ and ‘selfish’ is clearly unhelpful. In numerous threads I’ve read it just polarises the debate and alienates those people like yourself who are concerned (however misplaced those concerns are).

Firstly hopefully you can be reassured that the Covid vaccine is not as deadly as your first reading of the stats suggested now that the reporting and data has been explained (it’s fine to not have got that right the first time, we’re not all statisticians). Most current research of the links between the vaccine and these deaths is that they are not connected. Secondly, it’s important to remember that by being vaccinated as a young person you are a) hugely reducing your chance of transmitting the virus to vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons and b) reducing your own chance of getting seriously ill. You may not die (though of course you might), but the instances of long Covid in young people are looking worrying. It’s an idea to look beyond ‘will covid kill me’ to ‘will it potentially cause me terrible long term ill effects’?

For me ‘a’ is the main reason to be vaccinated as a young person.

Well thank you @Cap89 and @chickenyhead for your kind and respectful explanations

I do apologise for coming in strong on this thread but the idea that people lose their jobs over this issue (and with such vitriol) is so concerning to those of us who are frankly afraid of either option.

I don't think anyone should be obligated to put anything into their body that they don't want to. So the cm is not bu at all.

Like a pp said, the ball's in your court so it's your decision to make. That's all.