To think work don't have a clue?

[Rosebel]

Once again forced to take time off work because my son has been in contact with a Covid case at nursery.
Well aware the rules are changing for schools and really hope it's the same for nurseries.
I can't WFH and nor can my husband. I'm so pissed off with work who seem to think I should have back up childcare in place, even though I literally have no family to help and the fact my son is meant to be isolating so shouldn't be mixing anyway.
I try to work as much as I can (roughly 4 hours before DH has to leave for work) and we split leave fairly evenly so it's not always me who's off.
But I still get nagged and bitched at by work as to why I have to take time off (even though they know he's only 1).
Maybe I'm being unreasonable but I have a suspicion that my manager and team leaders (all male) don't have a fucking clue because they don't deal with the kids when they are sick. They expect their partner to do it and then seem to expect the same from their team members partners.
I'm actually on the verge of quitting because I'm sick to death of works attitude.
I'm trying my absolute best but if nursery says he has to isolate I have to look after him 50%of the time because that's what being partners in parenting is about.
Does everyone else get this at work? AIBU to mentally tell them to fuck off when they are giving me a hard time?

Take the time when you need it. Ignore the comments. Look for another job. Leave when you find one. Tell them why are you leaving which might help the next person.

5 1/2 days for the whole of the pandemic is not bad at all your work are on a different planet. Isolation for you would be 10 days so probably 7/8 working days.

@BeautyQueenIamNot

Bloody hell some of these responses are making me want to scream….not much you can do in a pandemic

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Confused by this, what is op meant to do then? She's already sharing childcare with her partner sensibly, he can't take all of it and nor can she. She can't magically make a new childminder appear out of thin air, and what place is going to want to take a kid that's been exposed to covid?

I'd push it back onto your work and ask them what their solution is then op. And when they don't have one, just ignore their petty remarks. Start job hunting though, don't just quit. In todays market, depending on your job, quitting could mean you're fucked for longer than a year.

OP,
You need to harden up and suit yourself.

Keep saying "what do you expect me to do"?

Do not allow them to upset you.
Ride this out with this employer and dump them the minute it suits you to do so.

You are doing your best in very difficult circumstances.

But I don't think anyone is refuting that women do end up taking more time off to care for children? Surely that's one of the main issues?

I'm not disputing that at all. In OP's case she is sharing that time with her DH so the problem here is a greatly inflexible employer. In her position what can you do. She must stay home at some point even if she divides the time with her DH. All she can do us tell them when she'll be back. And because they are as they are there may be something to deal with (or they might see sense)

Structurally? If women continue (for whatever reason) to do the bulk of this kind of thing what should employers do? Good employers recognises these things happen and have procedures / policies in place. If they don't do it voluntarily? The Government must step up. In Germany you have 10 days per parent per child that are covered for child sick leave. It is a start (and doesn't stop men and employers huffing and puffing about it, most men I know fo step up though)

During a pandemic? Flexibility is required. OP is showing hers by going in early and working. The employer?not so much. But without legislation a bad employer won't be flexible.

@Brefugee

Whenever I read posts like this, I feel grateful that my employer doesn't think or behave this way.

just telling it like it is. We can't have it all ways. Sure employers should be more family friendly (but they should be employee friendly, it's not only families that need support but a lot of people with young kids overlook this and this does cause resentment among the other empoyees). So yes, they should. That would be ideal.

But if it is perceived - even if that's not true and you can counter it with facts - that women are constantly taking unplanned time off for kids (for whatever reason but especially along the lines of "no childcare" for whatever reason) it plays in to the hands of everyone who thinks women should be at home with their children. Or part-time. And definitely not in any responsible positions with authority.

And many many many women fight this all their working lives (I have such stories) and never get as far as they should because of it. EVEN when they never ever take a day off sick or for unexpected childcare or - in many other cases - don't even have children.

It is what it is and we need to change it. But until then: employers will, and do (and understandably) will be grumpy about that.

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here. The Op's husband has covered at least 50% of the time at home when their child is isolating. This situation isn't about her being a woman, it's about her employer's attitude.

As for the reductive 'parents vs non- parents' issue you mention, this kind of resentment is both created and encouraged by poor employers. It can suit them to set groups of staff against each other as then they don't have to take responsibility for their decisions which negatively impact their employees.

The point being that, in general there is a structural problem - doesn't entirely fit the OP because her DH does step up. But it is true that many employers and parents expect women to do this, not men.

If employers only offer perks to some (promotions, flexible working, maternity pay etc) there are resentments. But. Despite the ones who apparently have greatest need seems to be parents - if this thread has taught us one thing it should be thst people, even when it's something we'll known like prejudice against working mothers, people don't care/notice until it affects them.

Disability campaigners and older women, among others have been talking about some other issues that often come to affect people who haven't been paying attention (accessible workspaces, flexibility for non-child caring needs etc) and so, while we're talking about how to make employers more parent friendly, what we should be doing is talking about every employee and how employers can improve for everyone. This will cut down resentment by those who don't have small children, and avoid a new generation of women having to Jack in work (or reduce hours) to care for parents.

This is a difficult one. Obviously your reasons for absence are somewhat unavoidable and are very unfortunately. But at the end of the day your employer needs you at work, well working.

I’m a senior manager at a medium sized company and we will only permit an absolute maximum of 3 days’ leave for DC having to isolate.

Anything further has to be taken as annual leave and is subject to normal disciplinary rules.

@GreenLakes

This is a difficult one. Obviously your reasons for absence are somewhat unavoidable and are very unfortunately. But at the end of the day your employer needs you at work, well working.

I’m a senior manager at a medium sized company and we will only permit an absolute maximum of 3 days’ leave for DC having to isolate.

Anything further has to be taken as annual leave and is subject to normal disciplinary rules.

There is no ''but at the end of the day'' on the behalf of the company.,

The company doesn't really get a say here. No employee is going to break the law for you and nor should they be forced to.

@GreenLakes

This is a difficult one. Obviously your reasons for absence are somewhat unavoidable and are very unfortunately. But at the end of the day your employer needs you at work, well working.

I’m a senior manager at a medium sized company and we will only permit an absolute maximum of 3 days’ leave for DC having to isolate.

Anything further has to be taken as annual leave and is subject to normal disciplinary rules.

You work for a shit company. You cant discipline someone for their child needing to isolate. That's absurd. Enjoy your discrimination law suits.

OP has two sets of obligations: parental obligations to care for her child, and contractual obligations to her employer. If she cannot do both, then she needs to end one set of obligations (i.e. resign). It is unreasonable of her to expect her employer to take unauthorised absence, whatever the reason, and also (presumably) to expect her colleagues to cover for her/pick up her work, when they may have other ppressures on them due to COVID as well.

It would be interesting to see some constructive and positive ways people could suggest for covering these absences from an employers pov. Even within large business one or two unexpected colleagues having time off can cause problems. It can and does affect the service provided in numerous cases. There cannot always be someone waiting in the wings so to speak to jump in instantly and cover.

I work with a large number of people many of who have 2 or 3 children at school and have therefore had multiple periods of time off to look after children sent home because someone in their bubble has tested positive. Add to that track and trace, any sign of covid symptoms (which are all often signs of something else anyway) and this can add up to a large number of days off.

Of course the OP should be allowed to take annual leave to cover this.

What are parents supposed to do in this situation?

@WhateverHappenedToMe

OP has two sets of obligations: parental obligations to care for her child, and contractual obligations to her employer. If she cannot do both, then she needs to end one set of obligations (i.e. resign). It is unreasonable of her to expect her employer to take unauthorised absence, whatever the reason, and also (presumably) to expect her colleagues to cover for her/pick up her work, when they may have other ppressures on them due to COVID as well.

This is a depressing read.

OP has two sets of obligations: parental obligations to care for her child, and contractual obligations to her employer. If she cannot do both, then she needs to end one set of obligations (i.e. resign)

How simple you make it sound. And what if she is a lone parent? Would you be happy for lone parents to receive benefits until their children are old enough to be left alone when they are sick?

Many years I was a lone parent and worked in a job that did not give sick pay. My seven-year-old got chickenpox and I did not have anyone I could leave her with at short notice. So I took three days off to look after her and once she was starting to improve, had to leave her at home alone and go back to work. It was either that or not eat.

If you genuinely think that people with family responsabilities shouldn't work, push for a better benefit system.

Of course it affects service levels, but until they stop school bubbles and 10 day isolations for vaccinated contacts then it's tough luck for employers and service users/clients. A driving instructor isolating may mean around 50 cancelled driving tests, those 50 people will just have to rebook. I don't know anyone who hasn't had a slower experience with for e.g. phoning banks, getting regular NHS services, phoning the tax office, getting goods delivered or buying a house in the past year.

@WhateverHappenedToMe

OP has two sets of obligations: parental obligations to care for her child, and contractual obligations to her employer. If she cannot do both, then she needs to end one set of obligations (i.e. resign). It is unreasonable of her to expect her employer to take unauthorised absence, whatever the reason, and also (presumably) to expect her colleagues to cover for her/pick up her work, when they may have other ppressures on them due to COVID as well.

For as long as the restrictions last, I would argue its perfectly reasonable to expect the employer to step up and recognise employees with children are going to have to isolate, as and when.

Its not a fantastic situation for anybody ; but it isn't OP's fault. The rules are the rules.

Its up to the business to figure out, not OP.

I can't for the life of me understand posters who say well it's a business and they can't accommodate time off etc. Yes, they're a business, and who do they employ? Human fucking beings. We are not robots, shit happens, life happens, and if a business is really that precarious it can't accommodate the very human needs and stresses of its employees (especially during a bloody pandemic) then it has no right to be operating.

Until society sucks it up and provides childcare - and that means being prepared to pay for spaces that arent being used - women will continue to be the ones dealing with this and being penalised for it.

@sweeneytoddsrazor

It would be interesting to see some constructive and positive ways people could suggest for covering these absences from an employers pov. Even within large business one or two unexpected colleagues having time off can cause problems. It can and does affect the service provided in numerous cases. There cannot always be someone waiting in the wings so to speak to jump in instantly and cover. I work with a large number of people many of who have 2 or 3 children at school and have therefore had multiple periods of time off to look after children sent home because someone in their bubble has tested positive. Add to that track and trace, any sign of covid symptoms (which are all often signs of something else anyway) and this can add up to a large number of days off.

So a business can claim its not reasonable to expect them to always have cover ; but have a pop at parents during a PANDEMIC for having to isolate with their children and suggest they should have an alternative child care option, which btw, wouldn't even resolve the issue?

This thread is incredibly depressing.

@Ducksarenotmyfriends

Clearly on one off unprecedented occasions, businesses can and do offer flexibility to employees. As I say, my company offers up to 3 days’ leave for when employees’ DC need to isolate.

However, we cannot have multiple staff members absent on multiple occasions due to DC isolating- they need to have something in place to provide childcare.

Businesses need staff at work and working in order to survive.

I'm astonished at how low some peoples' expectations are of employers. It's depressing.

Op, in my opinion, you have gone above and beyond by working through the night to stay on top of things as best you can. Your employer doesn't deserve you and another would be delighted to have someone with your work ethic.

And before someone comes along talking about how business be expected to be flexible...

I work in senior management for a large company and would be appalled if I came across any of these attitudes at work.

It is not a race to the bottom and business that treat their employees well do better.

[quote GreenLakes]@Ducksarenotmyfriends

Clearly on one off unprecedented occasions, businesses can and do offer flexibility to employees. As I say, my company offers up to 3 days’ leave for when employees’ DC need to isolate.

However, we cannot have multiple staff members absent on multiple occasions due to DC isolating- they need to have something in place to provide childcare.

Businesses need staff at work and working in order to survive.[/quote]
And the rules are that if your child has to isolate, so do you.

So does everybody in that household.

Not sure why some employers don't understand that?

It's really depressing hearing people say oh you can't blame the business /it's not fair on your colleagues /you should always have childcare /if you can't provide childcare then resign.
In normal times yes childcare should be in place but we're still in a pandemic. If the nursery say no we're not taking him then someone has to look after him
As he's isolating it has to be me or DH. Reading the replies from some has made me decide I won't put myself out for work anymore (although I will keep going in early until I get another job).
Clearly it doesn't matter how much you try to be flexible or how good your sickness record is, if you dare to take off for your isolating child you're a shit employee.
Can't believe people are facing disciplinary for caring for their child (although i suspect I might also be in that situation soon). Surely if employers feel that strongly they should just employ robots? Oh no wait. That won't work. Never mind we'll just bully working mums on to benefits.
Thanks to most who can see my point. I know it's shit for employers. I get that but I have tried everything to make it easier for them. Frankly wonder why I bothered.