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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School conducted a LFT on my son, against my consent

999 replies

duckme · 05/07/2021 19:26

We received an email from our school to say that, due to the increase in covid cases, they are going to resume the LFT scheme in school (secondary) rather than at home. They sent an online consent form for parents to complete. I declined consent. I marked the form as such and sent it back electronically. My son was actually isolating until today as his bubble had burst, but I reminded him that he didn't have consent for the tests so he wasn't to have one. I know mistakes can happen and forms can be misplaced so I wanted to make sure he was fully aware of my consent.
He came home today and informed me that he had the test.
He said the whole class was called the the hall. The lady could see on the list that he hasn't got consent and asked him about it. He repeated what I had told him, 'my mom said, I'm not to have one'. The lady then proceeded to lecture him about protecting his family and friends. He is 13 and gave in to the person of authority in front of him. Despite them having explicit instructions to the contrary.
AIBU in being absolutely livid? That person ignored written consent, ignored the verbal consent of my son and then guilted him into having an invasive test.
I'll be contacting the school tomorrow to complain but I'd like to know if my covid fatigue is making me over react a little. But I can't imagine it being ok for a school to override parental consent in this way pre covid! Have we all surrendered all our our rights now? Even our parental ones?

OP posts:
Holly60 · 06/07/2021 09:47

YABU to say he can’t have the test

Chipsahoy · 06/07/2021 09:48

My ds is 13 and doesn’t take the tests. His choice. I couldn’t give a monkeys whether he has them or not. However I know full well if a teacher pressured him, that he would.

I haven’t given consent because he’s adamant he doesn’t want them. So I think in this situation i would lose my shit at the school because I’d know they’d pressured him.
Only the op knows if her son actually wanted it or not and whether he has been coerced.

C8H10N4O2 · 06/07/2021 09:49

It has been a difficult issue since the Gillick case - can you give an under 16 the pill without parent knowing? It also raises with data protection - age 13 for that is taken as old enough for child to consent not parent

Isn't Gillick also context dependent? ie the child in question not only needs to understand the full scope of the decision but that discussion is in a medical context.

So Gillick's daughter might have been prescribed the pill or agreed to a procedure/test after confidential discussions with the medically qualified person, not after being lectured in public by a member of school staff?

chickenyhead · 06/07/2021 09:50

@C8H10N4O2

It has been a difficult issue since the Gillick case - can you give an under 16 the pill without parent knowing? It also raises with data protection - age 13 for that is taken as old enough for child to consent not parent

Isn't Gillick also context dependent? ie the child in question not only needs to understand the full scope of the decision but that discussion is in a medical context.

So Gillick's daughter might have been prescribed the pill or agreed to a procedure/test after confidential discussions with the medically qualified person, not after being lectured in public by a member of school staff?

It is definitely not limited to medical professionals, it applies across courts and social care
Holly60 · 06/07/2021 09:51

@callmeadoctor

Am amused at this thread, the OP was asked by the school to consent to something (doesn't matter what). Then her lack of consent was ignored. That is the thing that posters should be looking at. There is another thread hanging around where the Posters daughter was given lactulose by her childminder, Op didn't give consent, yet the posters on there want the childminder reported to ofsted for not having OPs consent. I realise that the age was different, but if the age is relevant then the school didn't need a parents consent and shouldn't have sent the form.
I think there is a difference between a small child being given a medicine by a childminder and a 13 year old having a cotton bud up his nose after he had said (‘coerced’ or not) that he was willing to have it done.

But I do take your point about parental consent. It shouldn’t have happened- however ridiculous I think OP is to refuse consent Confused

ArchieStar · 06/07/2021 09:51

I’m not entirely sure why you’d decline the test, however it is your prerogative and that should be respected, please do have words with the school because this is pressure on your son and it goes against your consent. Rather hypocritical of them given the (rightly so) push for education on the importance of consent!

Flowers500 · 06/07/2021 09:55

@ArchieStar

I’m not entirely sure why you’d decline the test, however it is your prerogative and that should be respected, please do have words with the school because this is pressure on your son and it goes against your consent. Rather hypocritical of them given the (rightly so) push for education on the importance of consent!
But it is NOT solely her prerogative, that's the whole point. Legally and morally, as children get older parents have less rights to make decisions for them. And even when the child is far too young to have their own thoughts, in reality the "prerogative" of the parent is limited, with courts intervening to make decisions in the best interest of children.

So no, it is NOT solely her prerogative. You can state that as much as you want, but that's not how the law views teenagers.

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2021 09:56

[quote PattyPan]@callmeadoctor there are two very important differences to that thread, one it was a toddler vs a teenager capable of making his own decisions, and two there were concerns that the childminder was giving a potentially unsuitable treatment which might cause a side effect whereas a LFT doesn’t have those risks.[/quote]
Its actually not about risks at all.

Its about pressure being applied to a teenager to make the 'correct' decision.

There are some serious questions left unanswered here.

It doesn't matter if its having your temperature or having your hand held taken. If you do not consent to it freely, its not ok.

If there was parental consent asked for rather than this purely being down to children there is an issue.

If you are talking to kids in front of a group of other teenagers and asking them a question where peer pressure or teacher pressure may be present and you are doing any kind of medical procedure you are opening yourself up to a complaint. A complaint which is fair.

If you have concerns about the parental consent not being what the child wants, you have to take the child to one side and quietly explore this as discreetly as possible.

In this particular case, the child has subsequently gone home and said to the parent they felt forced into this. This may or may not be true.

The point is this has to be dealt with now by the school and explain their side of what happened and why the child is saying they felt forced into this by the school.

What strikes me here is the child did not need to volunteer the fact they had the test. If they wanted the test, but parents had said no, and child was worried about the parents' reaction it would be easy to just stay silent. But thats not the case here.

You now have a situation where as a bare minimum there needs to be a sit down discussion over the schools handling of this, why the child felt pressured, by whom the child felt pressured and whether the child said something to please either the school or the parent - and why.

It is absoluetely NOT ok to merely say that the kid was 13 and can make their own decision because there is more to this story. There is a power imbalance somewhere where the child feels unable to express how they really feel and there is pressure coming from somewhere for them to satisfy the demands of that adult.

The safeguarding issue here is the imbalance of power and pressure on the child to do something they may not want to. It is not about the medical proceedure and their legal capacity. It is not about the safety of that procedure.

And this is why consent matters and why complaints about coercision are relevant.

How the school is handling the administering of lateral flow tests - particularly with regard to children who may not want it, matters. The school have a duty of care to protect a child's right to say not and to prevent bullying and peer pressure resulting from that. They have a duty of care to ensure that consent is properly sought and valid. The have a duty of care to make sure that children aren't in a situation which might produce conflict with their parents.

The school have failed on at least one of these fronts and thats important.

Thunderpunt · 06/07/2021 10:02

@RedToothBrush I see you on so many threads as the voice of complete reason, always so concise.

I wish I could have you walking beside me right through life, explaining everything.... I accept it would be very tiresome for you however Confused Grin

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2021 10:03

@C8H10N4O2

It has been a difficult issue since the Gillick case - can you give an under 16 the pill without parent knowing? It also raises with data protection - age 13 for that is taken as old enough for child to consent not parent

Isn't Gillick also context dependent? ie the child in question not only needs to understand the full scope of the decision but that discussion is in a medical context.

So Gillick's daughter might have been prescribed the pill or agreed to a procedure/test after confidential discussions with the medically qualified person, not after being lectured in public by a member of school staff?

Yes absoluetely. You have to ensure that the decision was both within the capacity of the child to fully understand and that the child felt able to state their feelings freely and without undue pressure.

The first part is about capacity the second part is about freedom to express that capacity.

In this situation there is a question mark about both - asking for parental consent is about assuming that the child does not have capacity as a default which strictly speaking is correct. The health professional has to double check this with the child.

At this point you assess capacity.

However the part about not feeling pressured by the circumstances in which this assessment is done is then extremely important.

As per my previous post, this needed to be done sensitively. Whats striking about this case is the son has returned home and volunteered the information that he had the procedure done and felt pressured into it. He did not have to tell Mum this.

He could be lying. But why tell Mum he had it at all?

Thats where the issue lies. There is a question over undue pressure about how consent from the child was obtained.

And the school do need to answer to this and explain what happened.

It is not a non-incident. The child has gone home and complained. That matters.

ClareBlue · 06/07/2021 10:05

You are correct that if they asked for consent and you denied it then they shouldn't over ride that.
Why you denied it is a completely different AIBU

BungleandGeorge · 06/07/2021 10:07

Whatever others opinion of your decision they shouldn’t have done this,no. Is receiving a lecture from someone in authority in a public place informed consent- no I doubt it. Competence is about being the childs wishes and in their own best interests. I don’t think either are particularly evident here. It’s totally different to a 13 year old requesting the pill!

FourTeaFallOut · 06/07/2021 10:08

I'd be cross about this. My dc do have lfts and while I can see the benefit of whole class testing it is absolutely not ok that the school behaved in this manner.

Pressurising a 13yo in a class full of his peers to be compliant in a medical event that he was initially against and without the consent of his parents makes absolute tatters of everything we teach children about boundaries, consent and autonomy.

C8H10N4O2 · 06/07/2021 10:09

It is definitely not limited to medical professionals, it applies across courts and social care

But for a medical test or procedure the courts would be reviewing inputs from medical professionals usually?

The actual procedure here is not the issue for me. Its about consent. If the parent has withheld consent then the child's consent needs to be free and properly informed. I don't see how that is met by being lectured in public and having to give that consent or withhold it in public (and to someone not medically or legally qualified).

MaggieFS · 06/07/2021 10:10

I don't agree with the OP's point of view about not doing LFT's but that's not the issue here.

Regardless of the matter, if it is something requiring parental consent, then no member of staff should be using the child's consent as an alternative and especially not encouraging them/using peer pressure to gain the child's consent.

Cavalierqueen · 06/07/2021 10:19

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MrsTWH · 06/07/2021 10:23

What you personally believe and what the OP is asking are two different things.

YANBU OP - you did not give consent and therefore your son should not have been publicly pressured into taking a medical test against your (and his) wishes and I would be extremely angry in your shoes and would be contacting the school. It doesn’t matter what test it is - LFT, school nurse weighing, a vaccine - you simply do not administer medical tests against consent.

Whether you think all the children should take an LFT or not is irrelevant (though actually I would agree that finding the cases is important and I don’t think it’s a big deal to take an LFT).

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2021 10:25

I really think that the point people are missing most on this thread is not about the OP's wishes or whether a 13 year old has capacity to consent.

Its that the child came home and complained to their parent about how they felt forced to have a medical procedure because of the situation.

Regardless of whether you agree with the morality of refusing lateral flows, we have a legal right to refuse and there are ethical and legal issues that surround how consent is obtained.

It does sound like boundaries were crossed by someone in a position of authority and that the child was uncomfortable with this.

We should be listening to the voice of the child in this expressing discomfort and unhappiness. Thats what consent is all about.

I think a lot of people on this thread are happy to over look this because they have a belief that all children should be tested in schools or barred from schools. Thats not okay either and frankly is rather concerning about where adults are prepared to turn a blind eye to the principles of consent when it suits them and their agenda.

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2021 10:26

@Cavalierqueen

It's highly likely the kid doesn't even have his MMR or other Vax if his mother is that nuts so he is actually more vulnerable than other kids in his class.
Thats fucking irrelevant.
ForeverSausages · 06/07/2021 10:30

It is really concerning. I mean where do we draw the line with regards to coerced consent regarding a child (or an adult)? This was okay because of Covid?

BeeDavis · 06/07/2021 10:30

If more parents consented to their children taking these tests MAYBE there wouldn’t be so many children sent home to isolate!

FourTeaFallOut · 06/07/2021 10:31

I think a lot of people on this thread are happy to over look this because they have a belief that all children should be tested in schools or barred from schools. Thats not okay either and frankly is rather concerning about where adults are prepared to turn a blind eye to the principles of consent when it suits them and their agenda.

Absolutely. I'm not sure if people realise what they are prepared to burn down to see thing happen the way that they would like but the rights of an individual aren't a 'nice to have' nor can they be taken for granted, they are hard won and need to be protected.

Applesonthelawn · 06/07/2021 10:37

I think this is a case where parents should not actually be asked to consent. The test is minimally invasive with no known health implications. If it has been decided that all should have the test for the greater good, then OP's son would be a huge weak link in that particular chain if he did not. On balance, I don't think it's reasonable for consent to be withheld and the issue is that OP was asked in the first place.

Cavalierqueen · 06/07/2021 10:40

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LannieDuck · 06/07/2021 10:40

YANBU

It doesn't matter why you declined consent. If they're going to ask for parental consent, they need to abide by it... otherwise why ask for it in the first place?!

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