School conducted a LFT on my son, against my consent

[duckme]

We received an email from our school to say that, due to the increase in covid cases, they are going to resume the LFT scheme in school (secondary) rather than at home. They sent an online consent form for parents to complete. I declined consent. I marked the form as such and sent it back electronically. My son was actually isolating until today as his bubble had burst, but I reminded him that he didn't have consent for the tests so he wasn't to have one. I know mistakes can happen and forms can be misplaced so I wanted to make sure he was fully aware of my consent.
He came home today and informed me that he had the test.
He said the whole class was called the the hall. The lady could see on the list that he hasn't got consent and asked him about it. He repeated what I had told him, 'my mom said, I'm not to have one'. The lady then proceeded to lecture him about protecting his family and friends. He is 13 and gave in to the person of authority in front of him. Despite them having explicit instructions to the contrary.
AIBU in being absolutely livid? That person ignored written consent, ignored the verbal consent of my son and then guilted him into having an invasive test.
I'll be contacting the school tomorrow to complain but I'd like to know if my covid fatigue is making me over react a little. But I can't imagine it being ok for a school to override parental consent in this way pre covid! Have we all surrendered all our our rights now? Even our parental ones?

[quote PattyPan]@mog27 what I think I think has happened here is that her son consented but didn’t want to tell her because she didn’t want him to have it for some bizarre reason. He is old enough to consent for himself and it sounds like the wishes being ignored are the son’s, which are more important than OP’s. Did she even ask him what he wanted? Unfortunately some parents are domineering and it is very difficult for their children to stand up to them.[/quote]
I agree with this.

The OP's description of they 'family discussion' below does not make it sound as though her son was on the same page as her. She made the decision and dictated it to him - the fact that she referred to "parental rights" in this context says everything about her approach.

People are claiming that the school coerced him, but the OP has made very clear that she attempted to coerce him. The OP thought she had the right to dictate this decision for her 13 year old, but she doesn't.

The most likely scenario here is that a 13 year old had the benefits explained to him and decided, of his own volition, to do a swab test. Do you really think the staff go on a guilt-tripping tirade against every teen who declines the test? Does that sound plausible?

Why did he walk to the hall in the first place? It will have been obvious that the purpose was to do a LFT.

I declined consent... I reminded him that he didn't have consent for the tests so he wasn't to have one ... I wanted to make sure he was fully aware of my consent... Have we all surrendered all our our rights now? Even our parental ones?

You post something like this in the middle of a pandemic, anyone would think you were looking for a fight

If there was a safeguarding issue

LFT tests have nothing to do with safeguarding. In that situation a person would be right to complain because they put a child at risk.

It it’s the the case here, your son made the decision to defy your wishes, direct your anger in the right place.

I would wonder why you think it takes bullying and coercion for him to change his mind at school, but when you discussed it at home he was capable of making a decision. Or, at least he was capable of telling you he agreed with you. He did start off saying he wouldn’t mind having it. You changing his mind wasn’t bullying or coercion, was it?

God, it's like the parents who make their kids sit out of Sex Ed and RE. Unnecessary and embarrassing for the kid.

I don't think there's any point suggsting that the OP coerced her son into refusing consent. If he felt bullied or scared of OP, he's hardly like to have admitted he had the LFT after all, is he.

Do you really think the staff go on a guilt-tripping tirade against every teen who declines the test? Does that sound plausible?

Yes, I'm afraid it does. Well not every member of staff or every child who didn't have have consent. But as I said upthread, I have forty years experience as a teacher, and I've come across this often in colleagues, both teaching and non teaching. I've also seen pupils berated for their parents decisions or actions that they have no responsibility for.

Yes, these colleagues might be in the minority, but they exist and I've had to take issue with them as a manager.

Going by the tone in this thread, I can only imagine that covid has increased the number of adults in schools who might do this. I can understand their fear and health insecurity, but it doesn't make the behaviour acceptable.

I am on the side of believing the boy here, I have to say. I can picture the scene quite easily.

@Tarabelle

Whether you agree with the op’s stance on testing is irrelevant here. What on earth is the point of a consent form if the school ignores it? And her son shouldn’t have been asked to explain his stance either. If he wanted the test he could have spoken up voluntarily. But instead it sounds like he was put under pressure. I know that at 13 I would have submitted to adult authority with little resistance. I agree with school testing and I would readily give consent for my own kids. But that’s not the question, is it?

I wonder where the issue of organ donation fits into this - my understanding is that I can consent to my organs being used after my death but my family can override my consent if they want to.

So there are clearly some situations where it is legal for someone’s consent to be overridden.

It doesn't matter why OP doesn't want her child to be tested...what it does matter is that the school took it upon themselves to go over the parents instructions and coerce a 13 years old into having something done that he clearly stated didn't want done. The teachers have put pressure on him in front of his colleagues and this is unacceptable!!!

Now you can argue all you like but if you agree with a parent being stepped over in this manner then this society is now bonkers.

What a disgraceful thing for a school to do. They are not the parents, and they don't have legal responsibility over the child.

Please follow all routes to complain about this. It's very serious.

Coercing your child like that is an awful message to send to the other children.

Teaching children that its OK for authority figures to publicly grind children down.

Why are they even doing this ffs? On whose authority did they decide it was appropriate to stop lessons and test every single child. (With an unreliable test)

Ignore the thickos on here OP. This is the thin end of the wedge. Soon anything will be done in the name of covid.

It has been a difficult issue since the Gillick case - can you give an under 16 the pill without parent knowing? It also raises with data protection - age 13 for that is taken as old enough for child to consent not parent.

Wiki - "Lord Scarman's test is generally considered to be the test of 'Gillick competency'. He required that a child could consent if he or she fully understood the medical treatment that is proposed:

As a matter of Law the parental right to determine whether or not their minor child below the age of sixteen will have medical treatment terminates if and when the child achieves sufficient understanding and intelligence to understand fully what is proposed.
— Lord Scarman[1]

The ruling holds particularly significant implications for the legal rights of minor children in England in that it is broader in scope than merely medical consent. It lays down that the authority of parents to make decisions for their minor children is not absolute, but diminishes with the child's evolving maturity. The result of Gillick is that in England today, except in situations that are regulated otherwise by law, the legal right to make a decision on any particular matter concerning the child shifts from the parent to the child when the child reaches sufficient maturity to be capable of making up his or her own mind on the matter requiring decision. "

I think you’re being ridiculous and precious. Your son has rights too and should be able to say whether he wants one. Stop being so controlling.

Am amused at this thread, the OP was asked by the school to consent to something (doesn't matter what). Then her lack of consent was ignored. That is the thing that posters should be looking at. There is another thread hanging around where the Posters daughter was given lactulose by her childminder, Op didn't give consent, yet the posters on there want the childminder reported to ofsted for not having OPs consent. I realise that the age was different, but if the age is relevant then the school didn't need a parents consent and shouldn't have sent the form.

You need to unclench OP.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I can only hope that you are not employed to offer legal advice as your understanding of the law around consent is seriously flawed.

@Sparklingbrook

Well we’ve all read the same thread and managed to read different things into it. It’s quite clear many people on this thread only care about coercion in particular situations. Otherwise it’s all good.

Your example was a bit out there TBF. Not sure why you were pondering the hypothetical future sex life of a 13 year old boy.

I wrote a whole message and lost it. It is not hypothesising about a 13 year old’s future sex life. It is about real lived experiences,a child bowing to someone in authority and not feeling okay to say no and have it accepted. It’s about his consent being usurped by a person in authority that sends a message to a child that they have no right to refuse, even when they’re protected by their parent’s refusal.

I could have used the recently prosecuted teacher and 14 year old boy as an example. But the point isnt the sex (though interesting that’s what you decided to focus on), the point isn’t Covid, the point is coercive consent.

[quote Killahangilion]@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I can only hope that you are not employed to offer legal advice as your understanding of the law around consent is seriously flawed. [/quote]
Please explain in what way I am wrong.

(It would help if you could make reference to actual statute and case law, as opposed to cut and pasting bits of Wikipedia)

I can’t believe how many people on here still don’t seem to understand the basic principle that “parental rights” don’t trump the decisions of a competent child or the best interests of a child (when a court intervenes). Gilick—child’s capacity to make decisions, Alfie Evans—court overriding parents to decide in child’s best interests. This concept of “he’s under 18, I can make whatever decision I want about whatever I want” DOES. NOT. EXIST.

In these particular circumstances, frankly it’s never going to be a test case as it sounds like he doesn’t particularly care either way. Sounds like he wanted to go for a walk with his pals (as per his original reasoning to his mum) and was fine with getting a simple test.

BUT if we were to take this to a greater extreme: let’s say a parent who was utterly opposed to testing, maybe a Covid denier. But their 13 year old child deeply disagreed, wanted to be tested and thought it their moral duty. They were in school and consent form said denied. But chill vociferously argues that they want to do the test, they not only consent but fully understand the test and strongly morally believe in it. And they would be doing it to themselves.

I sincerely doubt anybody who understands the law or consent could argue against the school allowing the child to go ahead. The degree to which they would need to discuss with child would depend on nature of what was under discussion—when it’s a self administered swab with no risks worth speaking of then the bar isn’t exactly high.

1. If they are old enough to consent, why send out forms asking for consent?
2. He was put in a position where it was difficult to say no. That means it could be called coerced and thus not valid
3. This is therefore a safeguarding incident whether you agree with the OP or not about lateral flows

Consent matters. It matters if the child felt they were in a position where there was pressure on them to have the lateral flow. The school can not just override parental consent without a discussion on the basis that a 13 year old said yes in those circumstances.

This isn't about the rights and wrongs of lateral flows or gillick competence.

Schools can not just override parental consent like that without explanation. Schools can not just decide that a kid is gillick competent in a situation like that.

OP raise merry hell and seek an explaination. They need to address this. Its not ok.

@hawkehurstgang

Sorry but it's not like they gave him the vaccine. This is a total non-event. You made a selfish decision, the school - who are obviously educators who you trust to educate your children - educated him about the selfishness and pointlessness of the decision, and he changed his mind by himself. Sometimes the who 'greater good' thing is a valid reason - someone could literally get extremely sick and pass away due to this decision you made. Your son sensibly changed his mind. The test will have no effect on him uet could literally save a life. And I say this as someone who totally respects people who chose NOT to be vaccinated - because vaccines are a much bigger deal and can affect the health of the individual, whereas the tests cannot.

Couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve said.

Ignore the thickos on here OP.

You sound lovely.

@Warmduscher

Ignore the thickos on here OP.

You sound lovely.

Unlike yourself!

@callmeadoctor there are two very important differences to that thread, one it was a toddler vs a teenager capable of making his own decisions, and two there were concerns that the childminder was giving a potentially unsuitable treatment which might cause a side effect whereas a LFT doesn’t have those risks.

@callmeadoctor

Am amused at this thread, the OP was asked by the school to consent to something (doesn't matter what). Then her lack of consent was ignored. That is the thing that posters should be looking at. There is another thread hanging around where the Posters daughter was given lactulose by her childminder, Op didn't give consent, yet the posters on there want the childminder reported to ofsted for not having OPs consent. I realise that the age was different, but if the age is relevant then the school didn't need a parents consent and shouldn't have sent the form.

The difference between a baby and a teenager is not just enormous but legally means we are talking about completely different things. Gillick vs Alfie Evans--can a child make their own informed decision, or a court intervening to decide the best interests of a child too young to make decisions. They are completely different things.

Someone should not be making a medical decision for a baby willy nilly without consent from parents or a decision to override this due to it being in child's best interests (this would usually mean courts). VS denying a competent child the right to make their own medical decision when they are legally competent to do so.

The consent forms are a bit of a red herring, as others have previously said the parent could consent and the child could then deny consent on the day and be respected. Likewise in the case of a child with strong views counter to their parents being allowed access to much more significant medical treatments, or to keep data private from parents.

It makes sense for a school to do the forms, but to also recognise that in some circumstances the forms can be overridden.

@Vintagevixen

OP's reasons for not consenting are not relevant - we don't need to know why. We all have differing opinions on rights and wrongs.

The fact is there is a process - schools DO have to get parental consent, otherwise why would they be bothering in the first place? In my school when I helped with testing each child had to file past the secretary who would check consent had been received.

Therefore if they didn't get consent they are in the wrong. It doesn't matter if you agree with the OP or not.

Absolutely. The OP was asked to give parental consent and she refused - the school went against her express wishes.

That is all that matters here and others shouldn't be haranguing the OP with questions irrelevant to this point