To think dogs are as much work as children

[HauteGirlSummer]

We have DC2 on the way and DS is 4.
My son and DH are very pro adding a dog to our family unit. But I'm firmly against it as I just know the majority of the work will fall on me longterm.

My argument to DH was dogs can be as much hard work as children but he thinks definitely not.
He says for example you don't need to arrange a minder for dog and they don't affect a 9-5 work schedule like kids do.
I've never had a dog myself but pretty sure this isn't true? Do people leave their dogs at home all day if they have a 9-5 job or do they have to make arrangements?
Dog-owners please help me out!

I love dogs but I know there's a lot of changes and commitment that comes with being a dog owner.
With a new DC on the way, I don't think I'll have time for a dog tbh. Even when DC will be older. I just don't have the energy for 3 'kids' (counting the dog). DH says I can't count the dog as they're way less work than kids.

AIBU to think dogs require as much work as children?

@imstilljenny2

There is absolutely no way dogs are as much work as children. Dogs need fed and walked every day and that's it really. The first year with a puppy is tough but way easier than the first year of a child. They sleep all night from about 13 weeks for a start. You also don't invest the same mental energy with a dog than with a child. As long as they are fed and have shelter dogs are fine. Plus they can be left on their own for hours. You don't get that with a child until they are a teenager. No way would I get a dog while pregnant or with very young children though. Wait till the children are older.

Don't listen to this advice, especially the bit about 'dogs can be left alone for hours'. No they shouldn't be and what is the point of having an animal companion if you then leave bit alone for hours. Cruel

@WiddlinDiddlin

It's different work to children...

Done right, yes its as tying and as much work as a newborn in many respects - and there are even fewer places you are welcome to take your puppy, and far less tolerance of 'I can't because puppy' vs 'i can't because baby'..

They are toilet trained in around 6 to 9 months, vs babies 2-4 years..

But ultimately, done right (and most people do not), a puppy needs access to their primary care giver most of the time for the first year, and a lot of the time for the next, and then you get a bit more space with an adult dog who can behave...be left.. be trusted etc.

If you do not absolutely WANT to do this. Don't do it.

6-9 months to toilet train a dog? I've said to the OP that it's hard work but TT shouldn't take longer than a month, at the very very most

Really depends on the dog - breed, age, temperament all make a difference.
Our dog can absolutely be left alone for hours. We have a pet cam and all he does is lounge around on the sofas and bed or sunbathe by the window. Doesn't bark or whine or chew, or any of the other symptoms of loneliness.
He does exactly the same when we're here all day and barely pays us any attention except when there's food involved. He's basically a cat.
We do walk him twice a day and take him to longer walks in the woods and the beach on weekends. He's very much part of the family so looking after him doesn't feel like work...and no, it's nowhere as difficult as looking after a child
That doesn't mean all dogs will be the same though. Especially a puppy, they needs lots more time and attention.

It is as much work as a child, they also shouldn't be left for more than 4-5 hours at the most.

A Dog will also limit where you can go on holiday, unless you're up for using kennels for 2 weeks every time you want to go away.

I grew up with dogs, i don't actually like them that much. I'd rather have a cat, and even then they're a pain in the butt in their own way xD

I think dogs are more work than children. Days out, if not dog friendly, someone needs to let dog out during the day. Normal work days whereas children will be at school the dog needs to be taken out during the day by a sitter or Walker. They don’t go on holiday with you so need booking into boarding. Cats are much easier and less needy.

6-9 months to toilet train a dog? I've said to the OP that it's hard work but TT shouldn't take longer than a month, at the very very most

And thats why so many people struggle, because they believe stuff like this - FULLY toilet training means:

Bladder and bowel awareness
Bladder and bowel control
Habit building to only go on one substrate (one found only outdoors)
Building a desire to ask to be let out..
Being able to wait until there is someone to ask to let out..

Depending on breed and prior learning this is going to take months to achieve - most puppies go home to their new homes before they have any awareness that they need to go let alone ability to control it!

Some puppies have already developed a habit of going on the wrong surface, newspapers, blankets, puppy pads - and so the new owner is preventing an old habit AND building a new habit at the same time.

I deal with puppy development and training on a daily basis, believe me a month is a hilarious expectation - you might get into some good habits in a month, if you are vigilant, always present and have a good routine of meals... but its by no means a realistic expectation for all!

Under no circumstances should you get a dog with a baby coming, a small child, and no experience of them. Dogs need solid training and daily maintenance.

They are hard work, and the work never stops. Dogs are essentially 3 year olds all their lives. Contrary to your husband's blithe assurance, they do need care during the day, or you will annoy all your neighbours with the barking and howling when you're gone. They complicate holidays, and vet visits cost a lot.

Wait til your children are much older and can be trusted with dog chores.

@WiddlinDiddlin are you sure you’re doing it correctly?? Ive had three dogs in my time and none have taken more than a month to toilet train and learn to go out! You might be a trainer but are you an effective one.

They are like children that never grow up. Your dog will never learn to cook his own dinner or pick up his own poos or go for a run himself - you have to do those things for him several times a day for his whole life. If you go out he will miss you, and you will find yourself coming home early from things just to make sure he's not alone for too long. He will want to go for a walk at the crack of dawn to do his business every morning, including Christmases, birthdays and lazy Saturdays. Romantic weekends away become expensive and much less spontaneous as you now have to organise and pay for kennelling. Long holidays abroad become extortionate unless you have a friend who can look after the dog while you're away. You will need to attend training classes and he will develop some annoying, anti-social habit, like barking at the doorbell, pulling on the lead, chewing toys or bouncing all over people, and you will have to invest time and possibly money in sorting this out.

And his needs are totally different to your children's so you will have to juggle - you can't take the dog to soft play, or the open farm or on play dates or swimming. When you come home a bit late in a rush to cook dinner and get the kids to bed you still have to squeeze in a walk.

I love my dogs but the idea they aren't work is 😂

@GetTaeFuck

Your DH is fucking clueless if he thinks a dog can be left alone 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Absolutely!

Has he ever had a dog?

Our dog is 2 years old. We got him at 10 weeks. He was our first ever dog.
There are me, DH and adult son in the house.
Omg it was such a shock to the system getting a dog, it is just like having a naughty toddler😃 He's pulled up plants from the garden, bought dirt indoors, eaten a TV remote etc etc
We only leave him for 3 hours, 3 times a week. He has 3 walks a day, There is no way you can leave a dog 9-5!
We have to think about when we go out, can we take the dog? Or if not, who can come and walk him.
You have to factor in kennels if you go on holiday, which cost as much as a child's holiday!
I would also steer clear of a rescue older dog with a baby too. Rescues bring their own problems.
Don't get me wrong, I love him to bits, he really is part of the family and I don't regret getting him. But, no way would I do it with a toddler and a baby!

We got a cockerpoo puppy last year in lockdown. She is gorgeous and very well behaved and also full of fun . We are a household of four adults which made it easier when it came to training her .
The first 2 weeks one of us slept downstairs with her so that we could let her out twice during the night for a wee. We then changed to a baby monitor because she then only had to go out once during the night .
During the day we watched like a hawk so that she didn't do her business inside and ran outdoor s with her a lot , but it was worth it because she didn't take long to toilet train . We also have a three year old dog and they love each other and play together but we still don't leave them alone for more than 3 hours as it's not fair on them
This afternoon one of our neighbours I've the back has left their did alone for some reason in the garden and it has been crying pityfully .
They are very hard work for the first 6 months or so . I would advise against getting one until your children are a lot older .

[quote FAQs]@WiddlinDiddlin are you sure you’re doing it correctly?? Ive had three dogs in my time and none have taken more than a month to toilet train and learn to go out! You might be a trainer but are you an effective one.[/quote]
Very effective thanks :)

As I say, there are multiple factors in house training, some breeds cannot POSSIBLY physically be housetrained in a month if home at 8 weeks, because they do not have the control over their bladder/bowel at 12 weeks that this would require.

Of course as I say.. some people will be very structured, get their puppies out frequently, provide no opportunity for accidents, have a consistent meal/trip out schedule and so they have no accidents and think 'hurrah, my puppy is housetrained'....

But if you were to leave those puppies longer than a couple of hours, take your eye off the ball, leave the house when they needed to go.. they would have accidents as they wouldn't have the ability to hold it and ask and so on.

So yes, it takes between 6 and 9 months for most puppies to be wholly, reliably, bomb-proof housetrained to the point where they will wait, ask someone, not have an accident if there is no one to ask etc etc.

But evidently you know better so what can I possibly say eh.

@BeeDavis

Your husband does not have a clue what he’s talking about. As a dog mother and expectant mother, I’m actually anticipating that looking after my baby will be easier than when we got our dog 4 years ago 😂

Hahaha oh no! That's definitely made me even more sure of my stance on getting a puppy 😆

Puppies are every but as hard as a baby (obvs without the birth injuries and hormones). Babies aren't born with razor sharp teeth and they largely stay where you put them, which is more than can be said for a puppy! 😱

YANBU at all purely because you know all the work will fall on you.
Your DH doesn't have a clue and I would imagine is likely to want the fun element of dog ownership with none of the responsibility.
They're hard work, but in a different way. We have to consider days out that are dog friendly, or only go out for mornings/afternoons, DC's activities have to take priority but the dogs still need walking properly, there's the time and effort in keeping up with training too.

WiddlinDiddlin My experience is similar to yours. We got to the point of no accidents quite quickly, but that was because we did all the things you said to minimise accidents. It took time after that to train them to reliably request to go out.

Don't. It's cruel to leave it alone all day and it needs walking twice a day which is a massive undertaking to keep up with small children. Wait till both are at school at least

I'm my DD'S childcare, my youngest GC goes to school in September, but I'm still stuck minding her dog for a part of the day. Her ex bought the dog and before they split the children got attached. It doesn't fit in to her life and I can see me having to do more once my GC are older and my DD wants to do extra hours. Her cleaning routine includes daily yard clearing of dog muck. It's a stupid bloody breed that doesn't like the rain.
I had a German Shepherd when my youngest was around 2.5. I love to walk and our holidays were mainly camping. I also had non working local relatives who could help out. My dog was my hobby as well as part of the family. You don't get dogs on a whim, or because it fits in with an ideal family setup. A dog and a baby don't go together. Your DH is minimising what care is needed. Is he wanting an excuse to disappear by saying he's walking the dog?

I’ve been thinking about getting a dog myself and my kids are a bit older than yours - 6 and 3. I wfh so am around a lot. But I’m a single mum and I’ve decided to wait until my kids are considerably older - old enough to be left at home for an hour so I can walk the dog if they don’t want to come. As right now there’s no way I could persuade them to come for a dog walk in mid January when it’s rainy and cold. I mention this not because I’m assuming your situation is the same but as you said it’ll likely fall on you.

Btw we do have a cat and they are much lower maintenance 😁

Wow how ignorant of him to think its OK to leave a dog at home all day. Sadly I think many people have this attitude. I'd consider it unfair to leave most dogs alone more than 3-4 hours, even then you have to train them to get used to it, and there's no guarantee they will have the disposition to get used to it.
I echo everything PPs have said, especially about them being like a child that never grows up. Everything you do you have to consider the dog.

Plus I don't know if this has been mentioned, and it's pretty obvious, but the amount of extra cleaning you have to do! In bad weather each time you let the dog out for the toilet (ours has to be supervised so we have to go out too) dry them every time they come in, constantly mop the floor, dog hair everywhere, slobbery dog toys all over the house. The dog smells but I don't think you're meant to to wash them too much. I'm sure our car and our house must smell too no matter how much we clean.

I found it so difficult when we got ours and would sometimes be in tears. Lots of patience needed and time to spend on training every day. Up at 5.30 in the pitch black cold rain in winter to walk, and out again in the afternoon. For us it's worth it but it takes so much of our time and it's still hard work.

@WiddlinDiddlin

6-9 months to toilet train a dog? I've said to the OP that it's hard work but TT shouldn't take longer than a month, at the very very most

And thats why so many people struggle, because they believe stuff like this - FULLY toilet training means:

Bladder and bowel awareness
Bladder and bowel control
Habit building to only go on one substrate (one found only outdoors)
Building a desire to ask to be let out..
Being able to wait until there is someone to ask to let out..

Depending on breed and prior learning this is going to take months to achieve - most puppies go home to their new homes before they have any awareness that they need to go let alone ability to control it!

Some puppies have already developed a habit of going on the wrong surface, newspapers, blankets, puppy pads - and so the new owner is preventing an old habit AND building a new habit at the same time.

I deal with puppy development and training on a daily basis, believe me a month is a hilarious expectation - you might get into some good habits in a month, if you are vigilant, always present and have a good routine of meals... but its by no means a realistic expectation for all!

Both of mine were asking to be let out within a month of arrival, and between the two of them I think we had 5 accidents tops, but I did literally exhaust myself taking them out after every sleep, meal and play + every 20 minutes in between times so they really did only ever toilet outside....which probably isn't sustainable or doable for most new owners....so I accept your point!

I think it depends on the dog. Some are more needy than others. Some, you could leave at home 9-5 as long as you had a dog walker come by, say, twice a day. I could never do this with my dog as she’s quite needy, so she goes to a daycare which is a hassle and expensive.

Also interrupts weekend plans a lot. If you want to go to dinner and a film- you can’t go for drinks after Cos the dog has been left too long.

And then there’s holidays.

So yes, it’s a big commitment.

Dogs are just as much work as children, puppies even more so. The people who argue that point either have a crazily bad behaved child, or are seeking attention

Yanbu. I am absolutely desperate to get a dog (DH not so much, in fact desperate not to!), and I’m not even going to initiate a serious discussion with DH until the DC are about 8 and 6.

It’s just too much; the dog wouldn’t get as much attention as it should, and young children might stress it out. I think it is different if you have the dog first, as the dog knows you and you know what you’re doing, but the other way round is better to wait.

Wishing you a happy pregnancy and smooth labour

I don't have a dog, but a good friend of mine got a puppy a couple of years ago. She said it was like having a mixture of a newborn and a toddler at the same time Puppy has now grown up to be a lovely, well-trained young adult dog. But YANBU