How do I deal with neighbour who has a vendetta against me?

[thepeopleversuswork]

This sounds like an exaggeration but my upstairs neighbour hates me and seeks to be a constant irritant in my life. This is a very long and sorry saga. There was an incident about 2 years ago which I've posted about in which she tried to persuade me to pay for an appliance to be fitted to her boiler because the noise made by my turning the hot tap on and off in my home was causing her "mental distress". I said I was prepared to go halves but not to pay the entire cost of this as I didn't believe it was necessary and she ended up calling the environmental health to make a formal complaint against me. The environmental health decided essentially it was her responsibility and said she needed to fix it, which absolutely enraged her and she has never forgiven me. The post is below if anyone can be bothered to read it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3611051-To-think-if-this-bothers-her-that-much-she-should-pay-to-get-it-sorted-herself

Since then she has done a variety of things which however much I try to rationalise I can only put down to spite:

• complained to the council and the property freeholder that I close my front door too loudly (I don't but I have a child who may once or twice have done this -- something which I don't always have perfect control over)
• complained to the council that I'm dumping things in her wheelie bins (I have not done this once)
• complained to the freeholder of my property that I'm a "nuisance neighbour" for unspecified reasons which boiled down to my having briefly had an old bed frame propped up in my back garden for 48 hours before it could be removed
• put nasty posts about me on the local WhatsApp group about the bins issue - -which were called out by other neighbours as "bitchy"
• Taken photographs of my wheelie bins
• Accused me of "spying" on her via social media (I have no idea what this is even about)

My approach up to now has just been to ignore everything and not respond to the complaints. I'm a middle aged woman with a 10 year old child. I'm not perfect at all but I'm a very long way from being a nuisance neighbour: I live quietly and with minimal environmental impact. The very occasional times I have left something in my garden, for example, its been a temporary stopgap while waiting to have it removed. I never play music late at night, I'm in bed by 11pm etc.

In the past week she has now installed something upstairs (possibly a fan or a dehumidifier) which makes a huge amount of noise all night and which has forced me and my DD to sleep in the living room because neither of us can sleep through it in our rooms.

I don't know how to approach this. I can't deal with it any more: its affecting my ability to sleep and thus to work. I know that if I drop her a polite note or a text about it it will prompt another furious burst of invective or a slew of complaints to the council etc. Her mental health is clearly extremely fragile and I have some sympathy but I'm also not prepared to be held personally responsible for her problems and to get attacked in front of other people who know me.

After I learned about the WhatsApp chat comments (from a friendly neighbour) I asked my lawyer to draft a letter asking her not to post defamatory comments about me on social media but have held off sending it because I thought it would be needlessly inflammatory. I just want to keep my head down and not get in her way. But I will defend myself if she is spreading untrue and defamatory things about me.

But now I essentially have a short-term and a long-term problem: how do I ask her to deal with this noise problem without triggering World War III and longer term, how do I politely but firmly put my foot down about this constant barrage of complaints and attempts to rile me about non-issues. I've considered filing a harassment complaint but I've been told that this can be an issue as you have to declare it when you put a house up for sales so I'm keen to avoid having to do this if I possibly can. I just want a quiet life tbh.

I agree you need legal advice re. Neighbour disputes.

We tried to keep things pleasant with our neighbour, politely asking them to keep the noise down. They then wrote us an angry letter telling us to leave them alone as our complaining was bothering them. We've been advised, as it's now in writing, we have to declare a neighbour dispute if we sell. So, we're going to the council next as it makes no odds.

Anywho, you have my massive sympathies. Nuisance, hysterical neighbours are the worst!

It could be air conditioning that switches off once it gets to the desired temperature.

I have a plug which has a temp sensor and turns a fan on and off periodically overnight when it’s hot I use the same thing with oil radiators in the winter.

It’s not necessarily someone getting up to do it. I don’t know if it makes it better but it might not be personal.

@Woeismethischristmas

I have a plug which has a temp sensor and turns a fan on and off periodically overnight when it’s hot I use the same thing with oil radiators in the winter.

It’s not necessarily someone getting up to do it. I don’t know if it makes it better but it might not be personal.

It may not be personal, you're right. It's hard not to see things through this somewhat paranoid lens sometimes.

@PointyMcguire

Would you be considering selling up if it weren’t for the nuisance neighbour? I could be wrong but if she’s made formal complaints against you I’d have thought you’d need to declare it anyway when you come to sell in which case lodging a noise complaint against her won’t make a huge amount of difference.

Would the OP really have to declare the neighbours complaints about her? After all OP is moving out so neighbour complaining about things she has done will not affect new buyers.

If you are sure you are due some inheritance in a few months then get the ball rolling now and put your flat up for sale. That will take a few months to complete so, hopefully, it will be at the same time your money comes through. The only answer to problem neighbours is for either you or them to move, I'm afraid.

My parents dyson fan has a sensor and turns on itself.

Why don't you knock on her door and say the fan is very loud could she put it on something table or a rug. Maybe she has it on a wooden floor? Im guessing you know from the plumbing issue ( I remember the thread.) Am I right she's not above you, but next to you like a semi detached maisonette ? Then you could say if she could do you this favour then you promise not to use her bins 😉

Agree with a pp about white noise or one of those ambient noise things like the sound of the sea or something.

@helpmewiththisnew

My parents dyson fan has a sensor and turns on itself.

Why don't you knock on her door and say the fan is very loud could she put it on something table or a rug. Maybe she has it on a wooden floor? Im guessing you know from the plumbing issue ( I remember the thread.) Am I right she's not above you, but next to you like a semi detached maisonette ? Then you could say if she could do you this favour then you promise not to use her bins 😉

She's immediately above me.

In a normal world that would be exactly what I'd do but we're beyond that point now unfortunately. She won't communicate with me and any attempt to broach this would certainly lead to an escalation of her complaints.

Helpme's post reminds me of when DH barged in next door and shoved a bit if carpet under their tumble dryer because the vibration annoyed him.so much! They weren't pleased but it solved the problem. So you have my sympathy. I don't think you'd have to declare it as it is now, as it's not a legal dispute.

If it's just one room, look into soundproofing the ceiling. It will give you a measure of peace from her, whilst you are waiting to sell up. Failing that, switch around the rooms, so you are comfortable rather than camping out.

She's not engaging with you and you don't have to answer the door to her. Just stay no contact until you can move.

Thing is, putting it in its simplest terms, you are a nice neighbour while she is a bad neighbour.

No amount of reasonable behaviour or acts of kindness from you will be reciprocated. I believe she has already proved this by carrying on to other episodes of crappiness after you were willing to assist with the boiler issue. You went further than you had to really as the problem was in her flat, and was she grateful, was she heck as like. I remember your thread about it at the time. She was a nightmare about it. If you had begged forgiveness and given her two million pounds to buy a house somewhere else to help her get away from the pipe noises, she would have complained you did not take time off work to drive her to the viewings or something equally as ludicrous.

Also, there's always a next thing with people like her. It's a never-ending cycle. It's not because of any problem you cause, it's because she enjoys conflict and playing the victim. You're such a good neighbour that's she has had to invent some things to get pissed off over. A bedframe that's just there for a 48 hours while waiting to be picked up. She's reaching on that one.

I think this has potential:

@Bitchysideisouttoplay
12:52:22

So i have not read the whole thread, but I would be tempted with what you have said to come at this from another angle. She want to p* you off. So knock on her door and ask what it is as you find it very soothing at night and can she please keep it up. With any luck she will turn it off to annoy you.

Your neighbour really sounds like she would enjoy turning it off if she thinks it will spite you.

You keep describing her as effectively abnormal, but your behaviour in making every single thing she does as some kind of very personally targeted attempt to 'goad' you or 'upset' you is not normal either.

Nor is assuming she is watching your every movement.

It sounds more like she behaves in a certain way because of whatever mental distress she is experiencing and became very distressed over the boiler issue.

You attribute this to her holding a grudge, but you have too because you've marked her card over it and interpret every single thing she does through the lens of that single incident 2 years ago.

You're making all her behaviour about you. I really doubt that it is. As other pp have pointed out to decide that her fan/ac/whatever is there just to upset you and that she is subjecting herself to sleep deprivation to piss you off is, for lack of a better word, crazy.

Have you ever listened to your front door close from her flat? Chances are if it is a building that was originally built as a single premises rather than two, that it is loud even when you close it normally and she probably feels it vibrate.

The bins... somebody else could have done the things she's blamed you for. Sure, it wasn't you so that's not fair, but it also doesn't mean she's delusional or malicious.

The bed frame - did you communicate to her that it was being picked up? Or did you just put it there and leave her to think it had been dumped (which perhaps felt like the final straw to her of her home being made an uncomfortable place to be)? Sure, maybe you have no legal requirement to communicate but it is respectful and courteous, isn't it? People aren't psychic. And people do get upset about flytipping and damage to the environment around their home, it's natural.

A lot of your examples seem to relate to whatever happened with the bins. As much as you feel targeted, she clearly did too.

To me, she seems like somebody who feels threatened and has become very defensive and distressed.

Much in the same way as yourself.

Viewing her as the enemy, calling her a 'bully', posting about her on social media where it could be picked up by the press (I'm sure there's enough detail here for her to recognise herself), becoming hostile and defensive, becoming paranoid and attributing everything that goes wrong as something she has deliberately done to you (sound familiar?!).... none of that helps.

I think you need to take a step back. Break this narrative you have in your head. Break this vicious cycle you've got yourself in. Life isn't about wrong and right, fair and unfair, and you're wasting energy chasing those things. Trying to prove yourself 'right' or 'innocent' is not going to help anything. Nobody cares.

Stay calm. Take the fuel out of the situation. Don't take it personally. Accept that whether intentionally or otherwise you did have a part to play in how this has developed and how it can be de-escalated.

@user432543424532

You keep describing her as effectively abnormal, but your behaviour in making every single thing she does as some kind of very personally targeted attempt to 'goad' you or 'upset' you is not normal either.

Nor is assuming she is watching your every movement.

It sounds more like she behaves in a certain way because of whatever mental distress she is experiencing and became very distressed over the boiler issue.

You attribute this to her holding a grudge, but you have too because you've marked her card over it and interpret every single thing she does through the lens of that single incident 2 years ago.

You're making all her behaviour about you. I really doubt that it is. As other pp have pointed out to decide that her fan/ac/whatever is there just to upset you and that she is subjecting herself to sleep deprivation to piss you off is, for lack of a better word, crazy.

Have you ever listened to your front door close from her flat? Chances are if it is a building that was originally built as a single premises rather than two, that it is loud even when you close it normally and she probably feels it vibrate.

The bins... somebody else could have done the things she's blamed you for. Sure, it wasn't you so that's not fair, but it also doesn't mean she's delusional or malicious.

The bed frame - did you communicate to her that it was being picked up? Or did you just put it there and leave her to think it had been dumped (which perhaps felt like the final straw to her of her home being made an uncomfortable place to be)? Sure, maybe you have no legal requirement to communicate but it is respectful and courteous, isn't it? People aren't psychic. And people do get upset about flytipping and damage to the environment around their home, it's natural.

A lot of your examples seem to relate to whatever happened with the bins. As much as you feel targeted, she clearly did too.

To me, she seems like somebody who feels threatened and has become very defensive and distressed.

Much in the same way as yourself.

Viewing her as the enemy, calling her a 'bully', posting about her on social media where it could be picked up by the press (I'm sure there's enough detail here for her to recognise herself), becoming hostile and defensive, becoming paranoid and attributing everything that goes wrong as something she has deliberately done to you (sound familiar?!).... none of that helps.

I think you need to take a step back. Break this narrative you have in your head. Break this vicious cycle you've got yourself in. Life isn't about wrong and right, fair and unfair, and you're wasting energy chasing those things. Trying to prove yourself 'right' or 'innocent' is not going to help anything. Nobody cares.

Stay calm. Take the fuel out of the situation. Don't take it personally. Accept that whether intentionally or otherwise you did have a part to play in how this has developed and how it can be de-escalated.

I do understand what you're saying and its very sensible. And I probably have taken things personally which are not intended as such. It's not good for me, I agree.

But she really has gone out of her way to target me. The stuff with the bins must have been annoying, yes. But it wasn't me and she knew it wasn't me - and she used it as an excuse to essentially smear me to other neighbours, which is pretty vindictive. It's quite hard not to take that personally. And hard to characterise this as anything other than bullying, really.

So yeah I haven't been that rational about it recently and probably should take a step back. But I promise you I'm not imagining that she's having a go at me.

Move house! This is not a healthy environment to live in or bring a child up around. There is too much negativity aimed towards you. There is absolutely no point trying to reason with someone like that. Don’t engage or even try to. Just remove yourself from the situation. It will never change otherwise and you cannot live like this. It is too detrimental. Good luck

user432543424532 Reporting the OP to the freeholder because of a bedstead in the garden for TWO whole days is a touch excessive. As is demanding the the OP pays all costs for a problem she has that an independent expert (environmental health) has deemed is the neighbour's problem. Accusing the OP of spying on her via social media is a paranoid activity - you secure your own social media, and don't post about the OP on places like the local Whatsapp if you don't want the OP to see them.

I get the feeling you've never been in the situation of having a problematic neighbour.

I think everyone always tries to negotiate this stuff without making a fuss, trying to do and say the right thing, but actually I suggest go all out nuclear from the outset and bash these bullies as hard as you can from the first time you see any kind of bullshit and it’ll make them think again about being the victim

My reaction is to lash back pretty hard once a CF neighbour starts their whinging. Make it so that they are the ones to keep their heads down and this mouths shut rather than approach you for anything. I have as little to do with my neighbours as humanly possible.

@memberofthewedding

I think everyone always tries to negotiate this stuff without making a fuss, trying to do and say the right thing, but actually I suggest go all out nuclear from the outset and bash these bullies as hard as you can from the first time you see any kind of bullshit and it’ll make them think again about being the victim

My reaction is to lash back pretty hard once a CF neighbour starts their whinging. Make it so that they are the ones to keep their heads down and this mouths shut rather than approach you for anything. I have as little to do with my neighbours as humanly possible.

I’d have to wonder if you yourself are viewed as the problem neighbour.

@memberofthewedding

I don't think its the best approach to go nuclear at the outset. I think you have to give people the benefit of the assumption that they are acting constructively to begin with.

But I do think when someone's behaviour tips beyond trying to deal with a specific problem and into being vindictive or obsessive its quite reasonable to defend yourself and if you don't defend yourself you're basically being a bit of a pushover.

But not worth jeopardising the sale of a flat over tbh.

I think the phrasing re 'neighbour disputes' when selling property has changed recently. The form we recently completed would have made us admit to even minor disputes and would certainly have included what you mention above. Sorry!

I wonder if its a Eufy/Roomba?

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@memberofthewedding

I don't think its the best approach to go nuclear at the outset. I think you have to give people the benefit of the assumption that they are acting constructively to begin with.

But I do think when someone's behaviour tips beyond trying to deal with a specific problem and into being vindictive or obsessive its quite reasonable to defend yourself and if you don't defend yourself you're basically being a bit of a pushover.

But not worth jeopardising the sale of a flat over tbh.[/quote]
Our neighbours are so awful this is one of the only houses that wasn’t sold in 5mins on the market

Literally everything else just gets snapped up

The entire area knows what our neighbours are like

With hindsight I’d have gone nuclear sooner, but you do have to give a bit of latitude

Narcissistic people aren’t reasonable

Ours batter van drivers, take their keys, run out and harass people

They’re old. All we have to do is NOT give an inch

And wait.

I have champagne permanently waiting. Well out last them.

Knowing that our locality knows what they are like and are supportive of us is so comforting tbh.

We’ll win. They know we will. They are truly awful people.

My CF neighbours sent workpeople to site ladders onto my property within a week of my moving in. They did not seek my permission or even approach me. Claimed "I did not know anyone had moved in". hahahaha "You did not happen to notice 2 days of 4 burly men carrying furniture into the house!"

Told them if it happened again I would call the police.

God she sounds like my old neighbour, everything you said struck a chord! We lived in a divided up house and she was above me. We had all the bin issues and complaints about noise (closing my cupboards too loudly!), We had abusive messages posted through out door, irrational behaviour during the four years we loved beneath her, and it fucked my mental health at the time. She decided to get 'revenge' on us by making purposeful noise at 4am. It sounded like a bowling ball being dropped, god knows what she was going but we had to buy earplugs. I did complain to our estate agents as we both rented from them, and the bastards forwarded on the email to her which caused a real explosion.

I honestly lived in fear and really feel for you going through similar. I hope you get out of the situation quickly. I kept my head down in the end and just knew it wasn't going to be forever, whereas this woman obviously had some major issues that she was not going to escape from. Distant memory now and we love our neighbours these days- I am so grateful. Good luck to you.

I've not read the thread completely but could you not post a question on the WhatsApp group?
"Has anyone noticed the buzzing noise happening at night? I'm not sure if it is the new 5G mast/delivery trucks/road works. I'm going to give the council a call but thought I'd see if anyone has any ideas first?"

It doesn't identify her as the problem but at least highlights there is an issue whilst asking others for their opinion.