Dogs in Restaurants

[IDontGetOutMuch]

Took my mum out to lunch today. It was a nice enough place-£25 per head.
Have expectations changed with regard to dogs in restaurants? There were four other tables in our section and three had a dog with them.
Two of them barked at least three times during the meal. One jumped up at a waitress carrying puddings to another table, paws on her apron. One jumped up at the table wanting to be fed. One was petted by another waitress who then went straight to a table to take orders without washing hands. One was lying in the way so that I had to ask the owner to move it to allow my mother to get through with her Walker.
We had a dog when I was a child. He never went to a restaurant. What about people with allergies?
Is it okay that they do? Do I need to get over myself? I tried to compare to children. I expect my children to cause no disturbance to others at a restaurant and to stay at the table. We expected this even when they were little and actually rarely went to restaurants anyway.

Luckily most people with dogs are not doggy-crazy weirdos and wouldn't dream of bringing their dogs everywhere.

I completely agree, it's the crazies that give 95% of dog owners a bad name. Most people just leave their dogs at home and no one has a tantrum over it, or their dog's entitlement/right to be somewhere else.

@claralara42

All I can see here is "blah blah blah my dog is more important, I want my doggy in the shops with me, fuck you".

Luckily most people with dogs are not doggy-crazy weirdos and wouldn't dream of bringing their dogs everywhere.

If dogs are allowed in certain pubs / restaurants / whatever then it's not a "fuck you" to take them to those particular places.

It would only be a "fuck you" if you'd taken a dog somewhere it wasn't allowed and you refused to leave.

I should not have to avoid places where I have to be and there's no alternative - ie shops and post offices, doctors surgeries etc. Because frankly my rights should always come above any animals. As should the rights of us all
No one says you're not allowed to go! Just wait until the person with a dog gets out!

It's not your rights vs that of a dog. It's your rights vs mine to be in there with my dog.

as I said I used to work in A&E and server allergy reactions area thing. Sorry if that's inconvenient to you
And how many people admitted for a dog allergy did you have annually? Very few.

I'm in no way dismissing severe allergies in any case. I just won't put my life on hold just in the off chance that someone with a severe allergy decide to take no measures so that they end up in close contact with my dog. It's very different.

Luckily most people with dogs are not doggy-crazy weirdos and wouldn't dream of bringing their dogs everywhere.

None of us want to take our dogs everywhere though. We just take them where convenient to places that allow dogs. Never to anywhere that doesn't. I wouldn't dream of doing that either

@TheFoundations can you really not imagine that shy or anxious people are perhaps just shy and anxious rather than passive aggressive or unkind? Not everyone has the confidence to challenge someone especially a stranger.

And I actually think this dog madness, where some people think their dog should have an absolute right to be everywhere, no matter the feelings or medical conditions of their peers, is a fairly recent phenomena. And very odd that it only applies to dogs and not all animals.

Nice people do actually respectfully make their feelings known
Absolutely. What's wrong with just kindly mentioning something. Passive aggressive people are a real pain.

I always respond very kindly and supportively to anything people ask me kindly in the first place. The passive aggressives on the other end get ignored.

@rantymcrantface66

Luckily most people with dogs are not doggy-crazy weirdos and wouldn't dream of bringing their dogs everywhere.

None of us want to take our dogs everywhere though. We just take them where convenient to places that allow dogs. Never to anywhere that doesn't. I wouldn't dream of doing that either

I can tell you're a reasonable and decent person @rantymcrantface66 it there really are many people who want to take their dog everywhere - into work, pubs, shops, hospitals etc. They very much exist. You wouldn't believe how many people used to throw strops about not bringing their dog into A&E. "What I'm supposed to just leave her in the car?!". Erm yes

What's wrong with just kindly mentioning something

Because of people who think their pet's rights trump that of a human. Like you yourself have said you think your dog does. And as I said, not everyone has the confidence to challenge a stranger. Don't take no one saying anything as a sign that everyone's happy for a dog to be there

Luckily most people with dogs are not doggy-crazy weirdos and wouldn't dream of bringing their dogs everywhere
Well I agree. I've never taken my dog to the post office, shops or other business, only been three times to dog friendly pubs.

I just resent being told that I am not allowed to do something that I am perfectly allowed to do because of entitled people who think they should be able to go everywhere they want with their needs trumping everything.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

It really is. I am the one respecting the rules of the establishment. You are the one who thinks they have the right to over ride those rules.

Lol the rule is not "bring a dog". The rule is - like with humans - "dogs welcome as long as they are well behaved, respect others, don't cause grief" etc. And as I am a HUMAN yes my rights always trump that of an animal.

I am a human. I have a right (an expressed right) to bring my dog to certain places. My right is respected by their rules, it trumps yours.

In places that don't allow dogs, your right is respected by the rules, and trumps mine.

If you think I'm wrong, here, go into a place where dogs are allowed, and tell people with dogs that they need to leave. See how you get on. My part of the experiment will be to see if I'm right by only taking my dog to places where dogs are allowed, and not trying to impose my views on places where the rules oppose them. I've already done my part. I've been doing it for 8 years and it works great. Never a single issue.

I suspect that as soon as you start telling people to remove their dogs from dog friendly pubs, you'll start having issues pretty soon.

Can I watch?

And I actually think this dog madness, where some people think their dog should have an absolute right to be everywhere, no matter the feelings or medical conditions of their peers, is a fairly recent phenomena. And very odd that it only applies to dogs and not all animals.

• Posters have repeatedly said it would apply to other animals if said animals were allowed by the establishment in question.

• No-one has said they have the right to be everywhere (other than guide dogs, which do). There are places which allow dogs and places which don't, and usually plenty to go around whatever your preference. If a place allows dogs then yes, their owners do have the right to take them in as long as they meet the conditions of service (usually quiet, under table, on lead etc)

I can tell you're a reasonable and decent person @rantymcrantface66 it there really are many people who want to take their dog everywhere - into work, pubs, shops, hospitals etc. They very much exist. You wouldn't believe how many people used to throw strops about not bringing their dog into A&E. "What I'm supposed to just leave her in the car?!". Erm yes

I can't say I've ever encountered this. No one on this thread is saying that's ok. They are just saying it s ok to take dogs where dogs ARE allowed

Isn't it interesting that when you say you don't like dogs, the dog people turn that into "dog haters" every time? As if dislike is the same thing as hate? The hyperbole is insane.
We don't care about you and your dogs enough to hate them. We just want you all to go away.

Well, that isn’t going to happen, is it? Not with the millions of households that include dogs. So saying that is completely unrealistic.

And no, I’m not an ‘entitled dog owner’.

Well, that isn’t going to happen, is it? Not with the millions of households that include dogs. So saying that is completely unrealistic

No it isn't. Almost all of my friends have dogs. Do you know how often I see their dogs? Almost never! They don't bring them around with them, they are normal, kind, people. They know they love their dogs and that not eveyrone else does.
That's what normal dog owners do.

I am a human. I have a right (an expressed right) to bring my dog to certain places. My right is respected by their rules, it trumps yours.

No your dog's right does not trump mine. Because your dog is an animal and I am a human.

And for the millionth time you don't have a 'right' to being a dog. The establishment (like with humans) allow your dog providing certain factors are met - that you/your dog don't disturb or cause distress to other, that you're respectful and that you obey establishment rules. Someone else having an allergy to something you've brought in, or if your dog is misbehaving or you aren't controlling it properly, negates your right. It's basic law and basic manners.

Now could everyone please stop spouting the bollocks of i HaVe a RIgHt. Because it isn't true

Because of people who think their pet's rights trump that of a human. Like you yourself have said you think your dog does
No I've never said that, ever. I've said that I shouldn't be made to feel bad for taking my dog in places where I'm told clearly by the business owner than I can.

It wouldn't cross my mind to demand that my dog be admitted in places where they are not. I fully respect this.

I don't go to public swimming pools with water slides during school holidays and demand that the kids should be kicked out because I want to swim without being splashed. Same principle.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@TheFoundations can you really not imagine that shy or anxious people are perhaps just shy and anxious rather than passive aggressive or unkind? Not everyone has the confidence to challenge someone especially a stranger.

And I actually think this dog madness, where some people think their dog should have an absolute right to be everywhere, no matter the feelings or medical conditions of their peers, is a fairly recent phenomena. And very odd that it only applies to dogs and not all animals. [/quote]
You're saying things that simply don't make sense. Society cannot cater for shy people who don't say what they want. It's a basic of being an adult that if you don't ask, you don't get. Nobody is a mind reader.

Nobody has said that they want to be able to take their dog everywhere (in fact the dog owners have specifically stated that it's good to have dog-free places)

It's not odd that it only applies to dogs, because of the nature of having a dog, which has been the same for thousands of years.

No-one has said they have the right to be everywhere (other than guide dogs, which do). There are places which allow dogs and places which don't, and usually plenty to go around whatever your preference.

^This is how I find it. My DH is allergic, and we don’t have a hard time avoiding dogs (except when with friends and family members who are dog owners, he takes medication for such occasions).

Society cannot cater for shy people who don't say what they want.

Once again displaying a shocking lack of empathy for people who you believe don't meet a certain criteria. People who suffer crippling anxiety and can't speak up - not their fault - well fuck them because society isn't built for them?

I don't want to engage with you anymore, I've rarely seen such shocking lack of sympathy and so much narrow mindedness towards humans. Says it all

Now could everyone please stop spouting the bollocks of i HaVe a RIgHt. Because it isn't true

Why do you think that you have the right to over rule the stated preference of a business owner, with regard to what is and isn't allowed on their property? Stop with all your 'big sighs' and your tEeNaGe CaPiTaLs.

Just answer why you think you should be making the rules about what happens on somebody else's property.

@claralara42

Society cannot cater for shy people who don't say what they want. It's a basic of being an adult that if you don't ask, you don't get. Nobody is a mind reader

Wow. What is actually wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me.

I can't magically intuit if somebody has an allergy, though. Or that they don't like something I'm doing when I'm sticking to the rules. Can you? If so, let me know how.

Otherwise I'll keep to the rules and assume that everybody is ok with that unless I'm told otherwise.

Do you think that we should have a secondary set of rules, just in case someone doesn't like something that we do? How do you make those rules?

@TheFoundations

Now could everyone please stop spouting the bollocks of i HaVe a RIgHt. Because it isn't true

Why do you think that you have the right to over rule the stated preference of a business owner, with regard to what is and isn't allowed on their property? Stop with all your 'big sighs' and your tEeNaGe CaPiTaLs.

Just answer why you think you should be making the rules about what happens on somebody else's property.

It's not the owner's "preference" to have your dog there 🤣🤣🤣 it's a liberty they allow you to take providing certain factors are met. Such as a well behaved dog, and one who won't cause distress.

Can you tell me why you think your dog has a actual right over every human walking in simply because it says "dog friendly".