Dogs in Restaurants

[IDontGetOutMuch]

Took my mum out to lunch today. It was a nice enough place-£25 per head.
Have expectations changed with regard to dogs in restaurants? There were four other tables in our section and three had a dog with them.
Two of them barked at least three times during the meal. One jumped up at a waitress carrying puddings to another table, paws on her apron. One jumped up at the table wanting to be fed. One was petted by another waitress who then went straight to a table to take orders without washing hands. One was lying in the way so that I had to ask the owner to move it to allow my mother to get through with her Walker.
We had a dog when I was a child. He never went to a restaurant. What about people with allergies?
Is it okay that they do? Do I need to get over myself? I tried to compare to children. I expect my children to cause no disturbance to others at a restaurant and to stay at the table. We expected this even when they were little and actually rarely went to restaurants anyway.

fail to see the difference between the two

The difference to most people who don't like dogs, is that an assistance dog is invariably highly trained and you can put a high level of trust in its good behaviour. Also, assistance dogs are few and far between, whereas in a dog friendly establishment you can get several at a time. If you don't like dogs, that's obviously an uncomfortable situation.

@MachiaNelly

One child is frighten after being bitten and my other is allergic

Mine too. It makes me wonder, people who claim dogs are part of the family if their child developed a sudden and intense allergy to said dog, which one would have to go? Hard to choose between beloved family members then. Or is it?

My friends are in this situation and there is no choice. The dog is part of the family. They pay more now for a dog daycare so the dog has fun during the day and in the evening once their child has gone to bed they let the dog into the sitting room for the night with them. Clean up thoroughly before they go to bed so all is fine for their little boy the next day. A dog can’t just be discarded like a unused toy when it doesn’t suit @MachiaNelly

I have a dog, we’ve brought him to outdoor cafes and pubs and he’s sat under the picnic table quietly. He would never pee or poo in an area like that and he doesn’t shed. Personally I wouldn’t bring him to a dog friendly hotel as I don’t like the idea of dogs who may not be as well trained/toilet trained or who shed being around me when eating food so I totally understand why others here don’t like this. But I am lucky I have family nearby who will take him when I want to go to a hotel. I’d say lots of dog owners have no choice to but seek out dog friendly places so there is a demand there for that kind of hotel & service. So people really need to check in advance if they really wouldn’t want to go somewhere with dogs allowed.

When ever we’ve taken DB’s lab into a restaurant he has always behaved perfectly, lying under the table chilling and minding his own business.

I've never been anywhere be it pub or hotel where there isn't dog free areas. Not saying there aren't some that exist but most places have a small selection of dog rooms I one area and the rest dog free and frequently dogs are allowed in the garden and more casual bar area so there is somewhere to go when it rains but not in the starter dining area. There are also plenty completely dog free hotels and restaurants. Something for everyone - badly behaved and inconsiderate people exist everywhere sadly and can spoil your experience whether it's by dog or badly behaved child or many other ways. No one is saying that's acceptable.

We have a dog we take him to the local village pub but only in the bar or garden not in the restaurant side. It wouldn’t have ever crossed my mind that a restaurant would be a suitable place for him

A dog can’t just be discarded like a unused toy when it doesn’t suit @MachiaNelly**

It's not really a matter of it 'not suiting' when it's a health issue for your child. I would think it's incredibly difficult to keep the pet and the child apart, when the child knows the dog is there. It sounds like it could be very wearing after a time. If a mild allergy then the consequences aren't too bad, but sometimes an allergy can cause a really frightening reaction in a child. That's not something I'd like to mess around with. It's not 'not suiting' if the pet is causing a child to be ill.

@TheFoundations agree that it's absolutely up to you or any other dog owner if you wish to delude yourself. However the rest of us are under no obligation to collude in your delusional anthropomorphism and therefore are under no obligation to treat or to consider your dog as a family member, whether in online discussions or in restaurants.

@MachiaNelly

What's your point with this 'who would you choose if you couldn't keep both your dog and your child'?

People's dogs are very important to them. It's very unlikely that they'd ever have to make the choice you're suggesting, and, if they did, most people would pass their dog to someone who would take good care of it.

What point does that prove?

[quote TheWagesOfSin]@TheFoundations agree that it's absolutely up to you or any other dog owner if you wish to delude yourself. However the rest of us are under no obligation to collude in your delusional anthropomorphism and therefore are under no obligation to treat or to consider your dog as a family member, whether in online discussions or in restaurants.[/quote]
As I said, keep going. You can think I'm delusional. It doesn't matter. Whether you or anybody else thinks that dogs are members of families isn't even a salient point on this thread, let alone in a pub or a restaurant.

Anthropomorphism is 'the attribution of human characteristics or behaviour to a god, animal, or object'. Nobody in this discussion is talking about whether dogs have human characteristics, so that's irrelevant to the discussion too.

Being a family member is a human characteristic.

And people are saying they take their dogs into restaurants and shops because they consider their dogs to be family members.

@TheWagesOfSin

OK then. We disagree. It doesn't matter.

Dogs in restaurants is minging. They smell. Dog owners are nose blind to it, but everyone else can smell it.

I remember going on a first date to a local restaurant and there was a dog there. It didn't come to our table, but my date was allergic to dogs and the poor guy spent the evening with streaming eyes and we had to leave early and go to the supermarket for anti histamines. Just being in the same room did this.

It hadn't occurred to either of us that dogs would be present when we booked (this was a couple of years ago before dog friendly places were as popular).

There are lots of people who have dog allergies, are they to be shut out of most venues just to accommodate dogs?

And yes I know guide dogs exist, but they are relatively few in number.

How do people think about bringing other 'family members' - such as cats, goldfish, guinea pigs and rabbits into restaurants?

It matters whenever your delusions impinge on other people's lives because you believe your dog is a family member and take it into restaurants and shops accordingly.

It isn't a matter of opinion whether or not a dog is a person but a matter of fact that it is not.

It is a matter of opinion whether a family group can include members who aren't people. People often regard dogs as part of their family because they share a close affectionate bond and a home. That requires no anthropomorphism whatsoever. I don't attribute human characteristics to my dog, except the characteristics that humans and dogs do actually share.

However the rest of us are under no obligation to collude in your delusional anthropomorphism and therefore are under no obligation to treat or to consider your dog as a family member, whether in online discussions or in restaurants.

I'm not sure how you think people are expecting you to 'treat their dogs as a family member' in a pub or restaurant, since you have no control over whether pubs or restaurants allow dogs, and you are not expected to go and welcome them by shaking their paw. Feel free to sit and think furiously to yourself "That dog is not a family member!" though.

It is a matter of opinion whether a family group can include members who aren't people.

It really, really isn't.

I wouldn't be happy about eating in a restaurant with dogs. If they are quiet and well behaved it wouldn't be so bad. But if they are barking and jumping up then they shouldn't be there.
I would have asked the manager to have a word with the owners of the barking dogs.

Not just guinea pigs @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop. I consider my Kawasaki motorcycle to be a family member. It's just a matter of opinion after all. If I take it to restaurants it sits next to the table not bothering anyone so where's the harm? Likewise my yukka plant, which gets lonely if left in the house all day.

@Missillusioned

Lots of people get migraines when there is a strong perfume smell. Should their sensitivities be catered for? Should we be banning perfume? And fresh flowers, come to think of it? Also, lots of people have issues with alcohol, so we should probably ban that in pubs and restaurants. Shouldn't we? And there's lots of vegetarians, so maybe also meat should never be served.

How far do you want to go with catering for individual sensitivities? If you make it clear to a restaurant that you have a raging dog allergy, they'll either seat you far from any dogs, or say they can't do anything about it, in which case you'll take your business elsewhere. Businesses will cater to the majority, because that's how they get more customers. The majority of people are fine about dogs in pubs and restaurants; I've had my dog 8 years and generally people smile when they see her, and if they look uncomfortable, I'll talk to them, and sit elsewhere if my dog's presence is causing them a problem.

There needs to be respect, both ways. I don't let my dog in people's space unless they actively welcome her. I don't expect people to try to control what I'm doing in my space.

@TheWagesOfSin

Not just guinea pigs *@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop*. I consider my Kawasaki motorcycle to be a family member. It's just a matter of opinion after all. If I take it to restaurants it sits next to the table not bothering anyone so where's the harm? Likewise my yukka plant, which gets lonely if left in the house all day.

It's your call. Why wouldn't it be?

Would expect to see dogs in pubs/cafes but never experienced one in a restaurant!

@TheWagesOfSin

It is a matter of opinion whether a family group can include members who aren't people.

It really, really isn't.

Where are the rules you're referring to here? It's fascinating me that you're so insistent on this 'fact'. How is it a fact? Why is it not an opinion?

We took our dog to the pub yesterday, where she was fussed over by staff and customers, and got to play with some kids in the garden. Great fun was had by all.

Urgh even in a dog friendly restaurant they should be under control enough to not be jumping up at a waitress carrying food surely??