Dogs in Restaurants

[IDontGetOutMuch]

Took my mum out to lunch today. It was a nice enough place-£25 per head.
Have expectations changed with regard to dogs in restaurants? There were four other tables in our section and three had a dog with them.
Two of them barked at least three times during the meal. One jumped up at a waitress carrying puddings to another table, paws on her apron. One jumped up at the table wanting to be fed. One was petted by another waitress who then went straight to a table to take orders without washing hands. One was lying in the way so that I had to ask the owner to move it to allow my mother to get through with her Walker.
We had a dog when I was a child. He never went to a restaurant. What about people with allergies?
Is it okay that they do? Do I need to get over myself? I tried to compare to children. I expect my children to cause no disturbance to others at a restaurant and to stay at the table. We expected this even when they were little and actually rarely went to restaurants anyway.

So I’m some cases it’s because the dog can’t be left home alone? It has to come to the restaurant?
Why stop there. Take it ice skating or to a West End show maybe?

It's probably more because you've been out for a walk somewhere with the dog and it's not practical to drive them all the way back home then go back to eat.

So in some cases it’s because the dog can’t be left home alone? It has to come to the restaurant? Why stop there. Take it ice skating or to a West End show maybe?

How silly. The many people who take their dogs on holiday, for example, (e.g. camping or self-catering) are (understandably) not allowed to leave their dog unaccompanied on the campsite or at the holiday house. They take their dog with them to places the dog is allowed to go - beaches, cafês, pubs etc. People who wish to avoid dogs can choose a non-dog-friendly pub or beach. Or one with no-dog areas.

There are other reasons you might not leave your dog at home on occasions when you go out to eat - e.g. it has already been left at home for long enough that day, or you're going for a walk too.

Either way, there is no reason why people shouldn't take their dogs to places they are allowed to be, as long as they are able to keep them under good control. Ice-skating and a West End show are not examples of places where dogs would or should be allowed. People with dogs who can't be left would have to make arrangements for them to be looked after if they were going on a non-dog-friendly outing. Or just not go.

There's a place near me that is totally geared up for dogs. It even does doggy afternoon tea. Lots of outdoor seating, bowls of water for the dogs etc. The owner has a dog who likes to mingle with the guests.
They have gone all out and if you don't like dogs you would have to give it a big swerve, but it's completely clear about it on the website. I imagine there's plenty of places like that where dogs are more than welcome and everyone knows.

Ugh, I wouldn't choose a restaurant where people can bring their dogs.

Guide dogs are fine, obviously.

I don't like to eat around dogs.

How silly

I said in some cases. Which seems to be the case, I know of people who have dogs with separation anxiety.

I was being tongue in cheek about the ice skating and West End show obviously, I guess if you have a dog that has to come with you everywhere it's restricting in terms of where you go and what you do. But that's what you sign up for when getting a dog.

I have come across many pubs and cafes that allow dogs, but never dogs in the more “formal” part of the pub eating areas and not really in restaurants.

I find most dogs just quietly sit under the table, certainly make less noise than young children sometimes do. I have rarely seen dogs in the evening, I like taking my own small dogs to a pub for lunch but I wouldn’t take them out to dinner. One of my dogs is a bit too inquisitive and he’s not great at the pub so we leave him at home unless we know we will be outside when the tables are more spaced out. Still he would be on a short lead and it would only be us that he disturbs.

I said in some cases. Which seems to be the case, I know of people who have dogs with separation anxiety.

So in those cases where they can't be left why wouldn't you make the most of dog friendly places? Where does it stop? Presumably with non dog friendly places. Obviously to go ice skating you'd have to arrange care the same as you might for your child if going to an 18 rated movie but you don't need to arrange care if going to a dog friendly pub. I don't get what your argument is?!

@rantymcrantface66

I said in some cases. Which seems to be the case, I know of people who have dogs with separation anxiety.

So in those cases where they can't be left why wouldn't you make the most of dog friendly places? Where does it stop? Presumably with non dog friendly places. Obviously to go ice skating you'd have to arrange care the same as you might for your child if going to an 18 rated movie but you don't need to arrange care if going to a dog friendly pub. I don't get what your argument is?!

I don't really get what yours is?!

@FannyCann

My DD worked in a local pub popular with families and dog walkers. She would choose the dogs over the small children any day. On more than one occasion she has witnessed nappy changes and mothers whipping a potty out for their toddler in the middle of the pub. I'd certainly have something to say to anyone who did that near me whilst I was eating my lunch.

I once saw a woman change her baby's nappy in a pub and place the pissy nappy on the empty table next to her.

At least dogs let you know when they need to go out for a wee (well, all mine did, and they weren't taken into pubs before they were housetrained).

People who wish to avoid dogs can choose a non-dog-friendly pub or beach. Or one with no-dog areas

The no-dog areas don't really exist. More and more places are allowing dogs and even when they don't like no dogs on beaches between May and September, owners ignore it and take them anyway. If you aren't a dog person it's becoming increasingly difficult to go anywhere they are not allowed. Even offices, as the thread the other week showed.

I was being tongue in cheek about the ice skating and West End show obviously

Obviously, but your point was presumably to imply either that some dog owners are so precious/entitled about their digs that they clearly think they should be taken everywhere. Or that it is ridiculous to say that there are dogs that can't be left at home when you go to the pub, when it's obvious that you would have to leave them at home when going to some places. But it's not ridiculous or inconsistent at all. You just do what is appropriate to your outing. As you would with children.

@Moonwatcher1234

You keep saying people can leave and go elsewhere if they don’t like it but, actually, why should they have to

Because lots of human have dogs, like dogs, enjoy dogs, accept dogs. Not liking dogs doesn't give anybody the right to say what anybody else can do with their own dog.

I could say that I don't like trousers, and 'Why should I have to sit in a pub where people insist on having trousers on?', but trousers are popular and the world isn't built to cater for my preferences. I just have to deal with that, and take myself to places that don't rub up against my preferences.

I'm not sure which bit of what I said you think is wrong? Are you saying that children should be allowed to disturb other tables and dogs shouldn't? I think we are in agreement that dogs need to be kept firmly under control, and that if they're not, then the owner is in the wrong, and the establishment needs to sort the situation out. It's a bit crap that your park cafe is allowing out of control dogs to essentially 'bully' families out of the park cafe. Did you speak to them about it? What did they say?

Lol @Sparklingbrook but please don't put ideas in these people's heads.

Although I am curious as to how a dog can experience let alone demonstrate respectfulness.

Why do people have to impose their dogs on people? Tie them up outside or leave them at home. I don’t want to have a nice evening out ruined by some smelly yappy slobbery creature jumping up at me with some stupid owner telling me it’s only being friendly. Well I’m not, it can fuck off! And to let your dog jump up at waiting staff is completely unacceptable. If you can’t control your dog it shouldn’t be around people.

some dog owners are so precious/entitled about their digs that they clearly think they should be taken everywhere

This is actually true. ‘Some’ being the operative word. 🤷‍♀️

@Lalliella

Why do people have to impose their dogs on people? Tie them up outside or leave them at home. I don’t want to have a nice evening out ruined by some smelly yappy slobbery creature jumping up at me with some stupid owner telling me it’s only being friendly. Well I’m not, it can fuck off! And to let your dog jump up at waiting staff is completely unacceptable. If you can’t control your dog it shouldn’t be around people.

Apart from assistance dogs obviously. They’re well-trained though.

New dog we got two years ago, we were amazed when we looked, post covid at places that accepted dogs and found that the majority accepted them.

The reality is that dogs have become very much like kids to many owners. Ours is. Disturbance is then in par with kids disturbance. Neither should negatively impact on others experience, but sadly we know that the reality is very different and too many parents and owners see it as their right for others to tolerate their kids/dogs. Nothing that can be done but plan as best as possible to go places that is least likely to attract one or the other.

some dog owners are so precious/entitled about their digs that they clearly think they should be taken everywhere
It's nothing to do with being precious or entitled but all to do with treating our dog as a full member of the family. I expect my dog to be perfectly well behaved though as I did with my kids.

As a whole, I find dogs much better behaved than kids in restaurants.

It's nothing to do with being precious or entitled but all to do with treating our dog as a full member of the family.

So, "deranged", then?

I would expect/not be surprised to find dogs in a pub, or with people sitting at outside tables in a restaurant.

I would not be impressed to find animals in other parts of a restaurant. I don't like dogs. Many people are allergic to dogs. Owners should leave their animals at home.

@TheWagesOfSin

It's nothing to do with being precious or entitled but all to do with treating our dog as a full member of the family.

So, "deranged", then?

It's a commonly held view, that the dog is a member of the family.

I could say that people are deranged for liking the cinema. But it'd just make me look a bit daft, because so many people do it, I'd clearly be wrong.

Family members are people.

It isn't a matter of opinion whether or not a dog is a person but a matter of fact that it is not.

[quote TheFoundations]@Moonwatcher1234

You keep saying people can leave and go elsewhere if they don’t like it but, actually, why should they have to

Because lots of human have dogs, like dogs, enjoy dogs, accept dogs. Not liking dogs doesn't give anybody the right to say what anybody else can do with their own dog.

I could say that I don't like trousers, and 'Why should I have to sit in a pub where people insist on having trousers on?', but trousers are popular and the world isn't built to cater for my preferences. I just have to deal with that, and take myself to places that don't rub up against my preferences.

I'm not sure which bit of what I said you think is wrong? Are you saying that children should be allowed to disturb other tables and dogs shouldn't? I think we are in agreement that dogs need to be kept firmly under control, and that if they're not, then the owner is in the wrong, and the establishment needs to sort the situation out. It's a bit crap that your park cafe is allowing out of control dogs to essentially 'bully' families out of the park cafe. Did you speak to them about it? What did they say?[/quote]
Well we’re never going to agree. I think children take precedence and that, for this reason, dogs shouldn’t be allowed into restaurants full stop. I did speak to the cafe but as they are located in a park with lots of regular dog walkers they were wary of upsetting them although they agreed some were very unpleasant to be around. Anyway, hopefully more of these owners will take your approach which seems to be considered and respectful of those around but sadly I won’t hold my breath. Lockdown has led to an exponential increase in people with dogs who don’t seem to know what they are doing.

Owners should leave their animals at home.

Owners should obey the law and the rules of the establishments they frequent. If the owners of the pub or restaurant welcome dogs, it is not up to other customers to say that people should leave their dogs at home. It is your choice whether you go to those establishments or not.

Essentially, within the law, businesses will decide whether it makes financial and PR sense for them to allow dogs on their premises or not. It's a question of market forces. If it does make sense, then individual people being unhappy about it is going to make no difference.

I'm a responsible dog owner. I am aware that some people don't like dogs and I sympathise. I keep my dog under good control, whether out and about or in pubs etc. I only take him to pubs when it is inconvenient not to, and I will sit at a table outside unless it's cold or rainy. People should complain to the landlord if a customer is not controlling their dog appropriately on the premises.

@TheWagesOfSin

Family members are people.

It isn't a matter of opinion whether or not a dog is a person but a matter of fact that it is not.

Nobody is saying that dogs are human. You don't get to define how other people define their own family. If you think you have that right, your ego is a bit too big. It isn't up to you to tell me whether I feel that my dog is a member of my family. You can keep trying to if you want to?

@Moonwatcher1234

I think it's a shame that some dog owners are irresponsible. Bothersome dogs bother me too. It happened yesterday in a pub beer garden, where my dog lay quietly under the table, and two other families came in and let their dogs howl and squeal at each other. It gives us all a bad name.