Dogs in Restaurants

[IDontGetOutMuch]

Took my mum out to lunch today. It was a nice enough place-£25 per head.
Have expectations changed with regard to dogs in restaurants? There were four other tables in our section and three had a dog with them.
Two of them barked at least three times during the meal. One jumped up at a waitress carrying puddings to another table, paws on her apron. One jumped up at the table wanting to be fed. One was petted by another waitress who then went straight to a table to take orders without washing hands. One was lying in the way so that I had to ask the owner to move it to allow my mother to get through with her Walker.
We had a dog when I was a child. He never went to a restaurant. What about people with allergies?
Is it okay that they do? Do I need to get over myself? I tried to compare to children. I expect my children to cause no disturbance to others at a restaurant and to stay at the table. We expected this even when they were little and actually rarely went to restaurants anyway.

This issue came up the other day when I had lunch with my son in a local 'gastro' pub. It's not cheap, full menu at restaurant prices, and since there's no standing at the bar and it's waiter service, it's basically a restaurant.

I was surprised to see at least three dogs inside - well behaved and silent sitting under their tables. You wouldn't normally see dogs in a restaurant pre-Covid, pubs yes but not in the eating area indoors.

I was a bit irritated by the situation but would have been very annoyed had the dogs been barking and jumping up!

This place is very busy and always booked so it's not as though they had to take all comers.

@MachiaNelly

fail to see the difference between the two

The difference to most people who don't like dogs, is that an assistance dog is invariably highly trained and you can put a high level of trust in its good behaviour. Also, assistance dogs are few and far between, whereas in a dog friendly establishment you can get several at a time. If you don't like dogs, that's obviously an uncomfortable situation.

Exactly. This came up on the thread about the yellow lead/harness a few weeks ago. The OP said that she would use a yellow lead/harness on her dog to indicate that it was highly strung and needed extra care taken around it, but some posters made the point that from a distance, a yellow jacket would look like the dog was an assistance dog so actually the impression given would be the opposite of what she intended - ie a calm, well trained, well behaved dog that won't bother other people.

Anyway, when it comes to guide or hearing dogs, that person's need for them trumps my wish not to have dogs around me. That does not apply to the people who won't leave their (badly trained) dogs at home because they think the rest of the world should accommodate their pet.

When it comes to guide or hearing dogs, that person's need for them trumps my wish not to have dogs around me. That does not apply to the people who won't leave their (badly trained) dogs at home because they think the rest of the world should accommodate their pet.

Finally, someone has summarised this succinctly and correctly, thank you igelkott2021. Exactly this.

I don't have any objection to dog-friendly restaurants/bars etc as long as it is made clear that they welcome dogs. The default position should be 'no dogs' and any divergence from that should be obvious on the website, Facebook page, front door or whatever so those of us who don't wish to eat our food around dogs (whether we are dog owners ourselves or not), can be certain we won't have to.

@TheFoundations a dog allergy is not the same as being vegetarian or not drinking alcohol. You can't choose to not partake if the dog is in the room. And it's a fairly widespread common allergy. As for flower allergies, this is a nightmare for a lot of people in hayfever season and being indoors is usually better than outdoors.

The default position should be 'no dogs'

Why? Your default position is without a dog. My default position is with a dog. Nobody is right or wrong. Nobody gets to make the rules. So we all have to be responsible for ourselves. If you don't like dogs, check there won't be any, or ask to be seated away from them.

I don't like butter, so I ask every time I order food that it be omitted. I don't expect kitchens not to use butter, and for those that do or don't to put a sign up about it.

It is a matter of opinion whether a family group can include members who aren't people.

It really, really isn't.

Saying 'really' twice doesn't make it true. A dog isn't genetically part of its human family, nor is it part of the family by marriage. But I'm not sure there's a law on whom you are allowed to consider part of your family. If there is, please point me to it.

You're absolutely right that you cannot be forced to consider my dog a part of my family. If I had a non-related human living with me and my husband and children for years I might consider them part of the family group too. And again, you would be under no obligation to agree.

Whom you are related to by birth, marriage or adoption is a matter of fact. Whom you consider part of your family unit is a matter of personal view.

It’s like kids, well behaved ones great, ones with owners/parents who don’t correct bad behaviour are the issue

When it comes to guide or hearing dogs, that person's need for them trumps my wish not to have dogs around me. That does not apply to the people who won't leave their (badly trained) dogs at home because they think the rest of the world should accommodate their pet.

No, what trumps your wish is the decision of the establishment to welcome dogs.

@Missillusioned

You can't choose to not partake if the dog is in the room

You leave the room. If someone with strong perfume comes into the room when I'm eating out, I move tables so that I don't get a migraine. If there's nowhere else to sit, I'm a bit screwed and might simply have to leave altogether. It's a pain in the arse, but I don't expect others to cater to my sensitivity by not wearing perfume, because it's me that's sensitive to it, and not them breaking the rules.

Most people are OK with dogs in pubs and restaurants - it's clear from regular and ongoing interactions that dog owners have. If the majority were against it, dog owners would be uncomfortable taking their dogs in, and rules would be tightening rather than loosening. It's crap having an allergy but it's not the world's job to make sure that you or I never encounter an allergen. It's our job to manage our allergies like responsible adults.

Where is this restaurant? It sounds like a right bit of me.. I’m lucky enough to live in a very dog friendly area, there are dogs EVERYWHERE!! They are never ever as annoying as other people’s badly behaved kids.

Like children, there are well behaved dogs and not so well behaved, you just have to suck it up, just like I have to put up with feral, screaming kids ruining my dinner when I go out 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MachiaNelly

A dog can’t just be discarded like a unused toy when it doesn’t suit @MachiaNelly**

It's not really a matter of it 'not suiting' when it's a health issue for your child. I would think it's incredibly difficult to keep the pet and the child apart, when the child knows the dog is there. It sounds like it could be very wearing after a time. If a mild allergy then the consequences aren't too bad, but sometimes an allergy can cause a really frightening reaction in a child. That's not something I'd like to mess around with. It's not 'not suiting' if the pet is causing a child to be ill.

It’s definitely a lot of hard work but like I said most decent people don’t just discard a dog. They work hard at it, pay more for care and clean thoroughly. Prior to finding out it was a dog allergy the child was ending up in hospital constantly with lung issues. Since they found out and new routine all is fine.

Anyway I was responding to your presumption that dogs wouldn’t be considered family members if another family member ended up having an allergy. You are incorrect. In alot of households dogs are part of the family and the family adjusts to any issues.

My dog comes to the pub and places we eat if allowed. He is well behaved though and I wouldn't take him if he wasn't. If you don't like dogs just avoid places that allow them. But I must admit it must be getting a lot harder to find somewhere that doesn't allow dogs. Most places apart from Whetherspoons allow them in my town.

@TheWagesOfSin

Not just guinea pigs *@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop*. I consider my Kawasaki motorcycle to be a family member. It's just a matter of opinion after all. If I take it to restaurants it sits next to the table not bothering anyone so where's the harm? Likewise my yukka plant, which gets lonely if left in the house all day.

If a restaurant is happy for you to bring your motorbike then bring it! Are you seriously comparing live sentient animals to plants though? Don’t tell me you’re one of those nutters who thinks carrots feel pain when pulled from the ground so you can’t eat them! 🙈 otherwise that’s comparison makes no sense.

Lots of dogs get plenty out of lying peacefully beside their humans rather than being left alone. Unless you have an air conditioning system that works separately from the engine, which most people don't, then putting in a van isn't really an option unless you can guarantee the sun won't come out or you'll come back to a dog with heat stroke or worse

Yes the van has air conditioning that works when the engine is off thanks.

If I went to a restaurant and saw there were dogs other than guide dogs inside I’d walk straight back out again. Pub gardens/tables outside cafes fine. But not indoors.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

How do people think about bringing other 'family members' - such as cats, goldfish, guinea pigs and rabbits into restaurants?

My cats and guinea pigs would get so stressed in a restaurant environment. so why would I put them through it?

So, "deranged", then?
Haha, here comes the anti dog brigade again! Those who will only ever consider any dogs as pests.

What would you care if I consider my dog part of my family! What is it to you?

It's ironic how in one hand, you get the 'dogs are not just for Christmas' warriors, who will shout abuse if you leave your dog at home alone for just an hour, and then you get posters like the above!

Just face it, many places and restaurants welcome dogs because most people like or are not bothered by the presence of dogs. They probably dislike unruly disturbing dogs but no more than they do with unruly and disturbing kids, and frequently, these are much more common occurrence.

I personally can't stand misbehaving kids so we pick places to go to where they are least likely to be. Do the same with dogs.

@Lalliella

Why do people have to impose their dogs on people? Tie them up outside or leave them at home. I don’t want to have a nice evening out ruined by some smelly yappy slobbery creature jumping up at me with some stupid owner telling me it’s only being friendly. Well I’m not, it can fuck off! And to let your dog jump up at waiting staff is completely unacceptable. If you can’t control your dog it shouldn’t be around people.

If they are allowed I take him. We go away a lot in our van so he can't be left at home. He doesn't jump up or bark at anyone so I can't see a problem if the owners of said place said it's ok. If the weather is nice we stop outside, normally so the kids can play. If it's winter or raining then he comes in with us

Normally we just turn up at places if we want to go out for a meal, but at the minute we are thinking about starting to go out again, and we'll have to book. Posts like this remind me that I have to check that the restaurant or pub has a no dogs policy before booking.

I've noticed a real change in this in the last decade, actually. When we rescued our dog 6 years ago, everyone waited with their dogs outside the Costa on our high street and yelled orders in the door, and the staff would bring out your drink. Slowly dogs started appearing, first small ones at the tables near the back door, then further into the seating area but not in the queue at the counter, and now people walk in with multiple muddy labradors and queue up for a coffee. No explicit change of policy, no change of management, just an unspoken assumption has now been made that dogs are welcome unless explicitly excluded whereas 6 years ago it was the reverse.

I have also noticed a huge rise in dog owners that say their dogs can't be left home alone as well - maybe a result of the pandemic and lots of people WFH more? Anyway that means people bring them along everywhere now, I guess.

@Xiaoxiong

Costa's policy is a uniform 'No dogs except assistance dogs'. Complain if they're bending the rules. It's better if there are places that people can go if they don't want to be around dogs.

[quote TheFoundations]@Xiaoxiong

Costa's policy is a uniform 'No dogs except assistance dogs'. Complain if they're bending the rules. It's better if there are places that people can go if they don't want to be around dogs.[/quote]
Our Costa allows dogs. It has a sign in the window saying they have to be on leads and at ground level.

I have also noticed a huge rise in dog owners that say their dogs can't be left home alone as well - maybe a result of the pandemic and lots of people WFH more? Anyway that means people bring them along everywhere now, I guess.

My dog can be left at home but why would I when I'm going somewhere suitable and enjoyable for her

Our Costa is a local franchise, not one of the national ones, so I guess they can set their own rules. It was more a comment on the fact that there has been no explicit change of policy at ours but now it's full of dogs. Over the last 5 years the assumption among dog owners - not just in Costa but everywhere, I noticed a dog in Cote the other day too - seems to have changed from "no dogs unless explicitly invited" to "dogs allowed unless explicitly banned".