So, british mumsnet, how do you feel about statues of Queen Victorian and QEII torn down in Canada?

[Evangeli]

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57693683

While we're talking about statues, curious to hear opinions on this. Are you shocked, outraged or just "meh"? I feel this is different from the slaver captain who was torn down last year (in Plymouth?) or the military/politician men who have been toppling across Canada- it feels even more iconoclastic?

Personally I'm anti-monarchist, so it's all good to me, but would like to discuss it. fwiw, I grew up in the UK but immigrated to Canada as an adult.

You DO seem disappointed people don't care, why? If Canada wanted to pull down all statues and rename everything monarchy related and elect a president, that's a matter for Canada, surely? As a British person, I'm interested insofar as I've been to Canada, I have family and friends there, I think it's a lovely place but I don't have a personal stake in the debate, and it's up to Canadians. As you say, they are British figures, not Canadian.

@MothExterminator

I think the death of those children is appalling and horrific.

Could someone please explain to me what Queen Elisabeth or Queen Victoria had to do with it? If not, I believe that the anger should be directed at the ones responsible and prevent it from happening again.

The toppling of the statues seems to be petty vandalism, I cannot bring myself to care about it.

Nothing at all, it’s just a weak attempt at blaming the British for something Canadians have allowed to happen.

@Babdoc

I think it’s an insulting way to treat a 95 year old woman who has just lost her husband, and who has never “oppressed” any Canadians. The queen has been an excellent figurehead for the Commonwealth. It is childish virtue signalling, attention seeking, and in very poor taste. Such behaviour belongs to toddlers.

You do realise it is the statue we are talking about, not the actual queen? The Commonwealth itself is seriously weird and needs looking at. I'm not sure that being an "excellent figurehead" is a positive.

@SecretSpAD

I’m stunned at the lack of outrage about WHY these statues were torn down.

Im as wokey left as the next person, but in the last 16 months my well off compassion, outrage, shock and anger has run dry.

Whilst I can feel empathy for the people still living who experienced the abuse in these schools. And feel anger towards how indigenous women (actually all women) are treated now. As far as feeling outrage, shock, other violent emotions towards children who have been dead for at least 100 years - no, sorry. I don't care.

I am so glad someone else said this. Constantly spewing faux outrage for something that happened 100+ years ago, and that had no effect on you whatsoever, is pathetic. And many people who have their own problems and shit to deal with in life, are sick of this bullshit now.

And the little over-privileged protesters with their faux horror, are always the same people, who recoil in horror at words and phrases people used in the 1970s and 1960s and before.

It's in the PAST, leave it there, and move on. Why the hell do you care about it NOW? What are you trying to prove?

Coronation Street has started from the beginning on britbox, and one of the actors on there, used a 'non-PC' name for Chinese food, in an episode from 1960! Not offensive, just a word that 'the woke' would go batshit about, because... well that's what they do isn't it?

And the faux-outraged 'woke' have called for the series to now be banned off britbox. Fucking madness. That was how they spoke then. Get over it, or even better, don't watch it, you absolute muppets!

And can people just quit this nasty habit of calling white people 'gammon?' It's the woke lefties who come out with this demeaning and racist term. Supreme irony at its finest!

@Wearywithteens

I’m not shocked or outraged. I’m more outraged at some of the things that are happening to women’s rights in this country today than to go out in a frenzy and destroy an inanimate object that represents something that is naturally dying out anyway.

Isis are big fans of destroying statues and historical items - the world has lost some priceless antiquities because of this need to eradicate and rewrite history.

Toppling statues is certainly a statement but it’s the destructive, undemocratic act that does not, in my opinion, help the process of reconciliation or progress.

Well said.

Seems an easy way to blame other people really, a long dead Queen and a current Queen who has nothing to do with these catholic school’s.

Yes, Lesartisansetlessansculottes someone just asked me if Canada should become a republic, as though this was going to stir some sort of reaction. I couldn't care less and doubt the vast majority of British people would even notice. It's a matter for Canada and wouldn't be on most people's radar. I presume trade links and visas wouldn't be affected, not that this would even affect the vast majority of people either.

So these catholic schools have operated for 120 years. Canada has been independent since 1867, so can someone please explain to me how this is the fault of the British?

@Babdoc

I think it’s an insulting way to treat a 95 year old woman who has just lost her husband, and who has never “oppressed” any Canadians. The queen has been an excellent figurehead for the Commonwealth. It is childish virtue signalling, attention seeking, and in very poor taste. Such behaviour belongs to toddlers.

This ^ in spades.

Understandable and probably about time. What has been uncovered in Canada is appalling.

I don’t give a stuff. I do find it interesting that fiercely republican Malta has retained all the evidence of its time under British rule, right down to phone and pillar boxes. There are even a couple of police stations with blue lamps outside.

@Blossomtoes

I don’t give a stuff. I do find it interesting that fiercely republican Malta has retained all the evidence of its time under British rule, right down to phone and pillar boxes. There are even a couple of police stations with blue lamps outside.

I always think the same about Mexico and the Spanish colonisation.

Pfffftt.

That's how I feel.

@Naunet

Imagine stupid people talking about their country being colonised by the Romans and not hating on Italians. How many years ago was this again?

Oh charming! The British colonised Canada in the 15th century, not recent history either. You can’t have it both ways.

The Queen is still head of state in Canada. Harry got kicked out of there for political reasons and his relationship to the Queen. They are not that Far removed.. now please continue with your 15th century nonsense..

The Queen is still head of state in Canada. Harry got kicked out of there for political reasons and his relationship to the Queen. They are not that Far removed.. now please continue with your 15th century nonsense

What are you talking about? Canada has been an independent country since 1867. These atrocities have happened in the last 120 years, under Canadian rule, the Queen being a figure head is completely irrelevant to what happened. Please do explain how the British are responsible for things that happened under Canadian rule.

@Naunet

The Queen is still head of state in Canada. Harry got kicked out of there for political reasons and his relationship to the Queen. They are not that Far removed.. now please continue with your 15th century nonsense

What are you talking about? Canada has been an independent country since 1867. These atrocities have happened in the last 120 years, under Canadian rule, the Queen being a figure head is completely irrelevant to what happened. Please do explain how the British are responsible for things that happened under Canadian rule.

Please go and read the first post I replied. It was about the Romans rulling Britain and no one is pulling statues down in Britain and hating Italian. Those who did so shouldn't have done so apparently. When children who experienced the abuse are still alive today exist.comparing the Romans to this is nonsense.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/02/the-toxic-legacy-of-the-british-empire-in-canadas-residential-schools

Please go and read the first post I replied. It was about the Romans rulling Britain and no one is pulling statues down in Britain and hating Italian. Those who did so shouldn't have done so apparently. When children who experienced the abuse are still alive today exist.comparing the Romans to this is nonsense

And blaming the British for what happened under Canadian rule, is also nonsense. Almost (if not all) countries have a dark history, and this is part of Canada’s. You can’t blame others for it just because the uncomfortable truth is, it happened under a Canadian government. 🤷‍♀️

"And blaming the British for what happened under Canadian rule, is also nonsense."

No, it's not. What happened is the direct result of the British Empire - it's not unlinked and disconnected as people have implied. If something like this had happened, say, in Iran or Russia, I'd say fair enough not much to do with Britain (although I just remembered learning how Iran, although never an official colony, was also badly screwed over by the British... and the Russians). But that argument simply won't wash for Canada. As others have pointed out, many powerful Canadian govt figures at the time were first-generation British or Scotsmen themselves.

I think the issue of Canada becoming a republic is interesting - I think it's clear that Brits could care less if Canada became one- but there are many ppl in Canada (white Anglophones) who feel strongly monarchist out of a sense of history, pride, tradition, who like the status quo just as it is.

No, it's not. What happened is the direct result of the British Empire - it's not unlinked and disconnected as people have implied. If something like this had happened, say, in Iran or Russia, I'd say fair enough not much to do with Britain (although I just remembered learning how Iran, although never an official colony, was also badly screwed over by the British... and the Russians). But that argument simply won't wash for Canada. As others have pointed out, many powerful Canadian govt figures at the time were first-generation British or Scotsmen themselves

No, it’s not, not in this case. This happened in the last 120 years, when Canada had independence. How is the actions of the Canadian government the fault of the British Empire?

Did independence come with the caveat that they can still blame the British for any bad things they do thereafter? How many years does that last for?

It’s like the odd American on Twitter who likes to blame the British for the wars with natives, despite getting independence in 1776, and the last war with natives being in 1924!

Why Vickie, what did she do. She didn't want her people to starve.

@gillysSong

Why Vickie, what did she do. She didn't want her people to starve.

She wasn’t even catholic!

No, it's not. What happened is the direct result of the British Empire - it's not unlinked and disconnected as people have implied. If something like this had happened, say, in Iran or Russia, I'd say fair enough not much to do with Britain (although I just remembered learning how Iran, although never an official colony, was also badly screwed over by the British... and the Russians). But that argument simply won't wash for Canada. As others have pointed out, many powerful Canadian govt figures at the time were first-generation British or Scotsmen themselves.

Is what's happening to indigenous women and children also as a direct results of British rule?

I don't think history should be ignored. But I am not not getting why its so important to concentrate on whose fault this was 100 hundred years ago, but ignore that's it still happening now.

And who is to blame for the fact its still happening.

It feels like complete deflection.

I can't get worked up over the toppling of a statue. I can however about the dead children.

From what I am seeing people in canada don’t know about the statues as the news media is not reporting that the statues came down, and or they don’t really care. I think it’s weird the media here aren’t reporting on it.

To be honest. I am on vacation and not catching up on news as I should but I did a quick google and found that the CBC. CTV, Global and CP24 all have links to coverage of the statues.