So, british mumsnet, how do you feel about statues of Queen Victorian and QEII torn down in Canada?

[Evangeli]

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57693683

While we're talking about statues, curious to hear opinions on this. Are you shocked, outraged or just "meh"? I feel this is different from the slaver captain who was torn down last year (in Plymouth?) or the military/politician men who have been toppling across Canada- it feels even more iconoclastic?

Personally I'm anti-monarchist, so it's all good to me, but would like to discuss it. fwiw, I grew up in the UK but immigrated to Canada as an adult.

I'm only shocked it took this long. Colonialism and imperialist failures have been known for a very long time. Obviously more attention goes to the victims of this(who are still alive and the 'legacy' of elders who suffered goes on) that the perpetrators but the statues should have been gone decades ago. Anyone who's angry or indifferent needs to take a look at themselves and ask why that's their reaction.

I think the Canadian ppl are trying to distance themselves from any responsibility.
I'm sure the majority of nuns and priests were not sailed in from the UK.

@Wearywithteens I think plenty are arguing that colonization and its after effects are not dying out, simply presented in different forms.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate exactly I felt a bit odd about QEII as she is not a historic figure and still alive. I guess the issue is it's true she has no real contemporary power, but she still symbolizes effectively the British Empire and colonialism

It's hard to care too much about statues given the year we've just had. I wish I was more surprised about the recent horrific discovery at another school in Canada but given what we've found out about the mother and baby homes in Ireland I'm not.
If Canadians want to pull down these statues that's up to them, I am also a republican but as a pp said there will be even less statues of women now.

I’m not Canadian so I couldn’t care less

@Shimmyshimmycocobop It also surprised me that not a lot of connection was being made with the mother and baby homes in Ireland- it was basically a similar system and set-up right? Although racist in the case of Canada, and sexist in Ireland.
As for statues of women, maybe we can find some women who were associated with less violent histories, writers, novelists, poets? I'm sure there must be a few :)

Meh.

Don't care, don't like the monarchy either

Regardless of the perspectives of why they did it, the bottom line, it's vandalism

@Evangeli my great aunt by marriage was an indigenous person. Her and her sister were lovely people.

To the people saying they're not Canadian so they don't care: but these are statues of important British figures- one of which is still alive and whom you hear about almost every day. It's not quite the same as say, Robert E lee statues pulled down in the US. Canada still has strong symbolic ties to Britain, in a way that say, Spain doesn't. I know plenty of monarchists just in my small town provincial circle.

Also, it's possible to care about more than one thing, eg you can care about women's rights, and also Indigenous rights.

I don’t necessarily agree with the tearing down of statues as a denial of history but can see the value in the action symbolising the tearing down of oppression- ideally some statues would be preserved in museums discussing the implications of the person as a whole - links to oppression, also links to freedom to show how easy it is to be passive. Queen Victoria - I can see how the tearing down of a statue could provide solace to communities who are discovering the extent of atrocities - I think QE2 is a bit harsh and not really clear on the oppression related to her.

You seem a bit disappointed that people don’t care. I have a feeling this thread didn’t go the way you were hoping

I think it’s a fucked up attempt to misrepresent history.

Statues represent part of a place’s history and knocking them down will change absolutely nothing.

The equivalent here would be going around smashing Roman busts a la Taliban for example- because they were slave-owning colonists. It’s more about self-righteousness than anything else.

The territory now known as Canada was for a short period a colony of France and the UK, and many of the people now living there are descended from colonists. Nothing will ever change that.

Couldn’t really say I’m outraged or shocked though. In order to be either you need to have even a surface level expectation and understanding of the cultural and social issues and being so far removed from Canada I don’t have that knowledge to feel either of these emotions. I think that’s why most people are a bit meh about it.

Why were the statues put up? Out of respect to the institution of monarchy. Tearing them down seems to be an entirely appropriate way to say something rather less deferential about monarchy, what it stands for, and what it has facilitated. I'm all in favour.

I can understand the anger and grief behind the actions tbh.

Maybe the national day should have been cancelled this year or done in a completely different way to acknowledge what happened.

I can’t think of a single person I know who would give 2 shits about a couple of statues coming down. I’m not anti royal but I don’t think anyone should have statues of them in their country if they don’t want them.

And to say that we put up statues to commemorate our history is rubbish. Adolf Hitler and his policies had more impact on the UK and it's urban environment than almost any politician of the twentieth century. Why don't we have a statue to him?

I completely understand their anger. I'm not Canadian- why would I presume to judge their reactions stuff around this.

They're statues, it's not like attacking people.

I also understand the reasons for toppling the ones here earlier in the year and the demands for famous institutions named after wealthy benefactors who made lots of money from the slave trade being renamed.

These things can go in museums that's aok.

In general it's a good opportunity to put some new statues up which recognise people who did amazing things but were never recognised for it.

The whole thing of kings queens generals etc being around literally for us to look up to. Let's have a wider range around.

I know this is not a popular view.

In Canada. Put those in a museum and replace with memorials to the children and their families, and those who fought against the treatment of that population over the years.

@Mummyof2andapig yes, you are right, I am surprised at how little people care. Given the so many strong opinions on Di and MM and Kate and that lot, I thought there would be more fervour one way or the other.

I agree that the tearing down of statues is symbolic- it's not meant to achieve decolonization in one go, but it's a strong gesture.

'It’s more about self-righteousness than anything else.'

Not about the discovery of a raft of mass graves full of children's bodies?

Well if you say so.

The equivalent here would be going around smashing Roman busts a la Taliban for example- because they were slave-owning colonists. It’s more about self-righteousness than anything else.

It's hardly equivalent to smashing Roman busts. Not a lot of Roman Britain's around these days, are there?