to think "I'll wait for them to ask" is bad parenting?

[SesameOrangutan]

There's a thread I've just seen where a parent has said they're contemplating asking their DC whether they want something that they really should've had a long time ago but that they don't want to offer it to them because they want the DC to come to them and ask for it of their own volition.
I've had friends with this too - like a friend whose DD had hairy legs and she was waiting for her daughter to bring it up and ask about hair removal instead of her mentioning it. A lot of children/teens really smell bad but their parents are waiting for them to bring up wearing deodorant (which they won't until it's too late because they won't know they smell until someone else points it out).
When I was a child/teen, we grew up without much money and I never felt like I could ask for anything. DM seemed completely oblivious that things I needed weren't being provided for and, because she had a temper, I never felt comfortable asking for anything or bringing anything up myself. DM would never, ever see my childhood that way and genuinely believes we had a very close relationship. My wages from my part-time job went directly into her account. I never had sanitary products because I couldn't ask my mum for them so I used toilet roll instead (which doesn't work btw), I used to shave my legs/armpits at friends houses in their bathrooms when I asked to use the toilet, I didn't eat breakfast or lunch (my mum ate at work and it didn't seem to occur to her that there was nothing at home for breakfast/lunch).
I wonder how many well meaning parents are putting all the responsibility on their children to ask for basic things that they need - and how many children are too scared, embarrassed or naive to ask for it. AIBU to think that a major part of being a parent is pro-actively providing for your child or asking about their needs instead of always sitting and waiting for instructions from a child on what they need?

Your mum was clearly in the wrong for the way she behaved, but there’s no hard and fast rule. I don’t think it’s a parent’s job to impose arbitrary beauty standards in respect of body hair on their children, but they should be having frank conversations about hygiene if necessary.

In the thread you’re talking about I don’t think the OP has been unreasonable. Unless her elder son has SEN there’s no reason why he can’t ask for his own room if it’s important to him. The fact that he hasn’t suggests it hasn’t been a major issue for him so far. It’s not like it was something personal or embarrassing that he would be afraid to bring up himself.

What you experienced sounds more like neglect than a well meaning but thoughtless parent. It's beyond thoughtless to not realise your dc needs meals. I've actively pushed dd to wash more often and use deodorant and skin care as she's getting spotty but I offered her cropped tops a couple of times and she said no so I then waited for her to ask. Re body hair I will wait. She's half a dark Mediterranean origin so is quite hairy but at 11 and just finished primary is rather she dealt with it once she became uncomfortable rather than me making her think she needs to do it now. There are always spare razors and sanitary products in the cupboard (despite me being a poor single parent, that's not an excuse to not meet basic needs) and I'm confident she'll ask me when she wants to use them but they are there for her to sneak/experiment with should she not

I think it depends on the child one has and whether we're talking about a health/safety thing or an optional fashion thing.

I have one child who devoured every book I have about puberty and then some. She asks and talks about everything that comes to her mind, brings things to me all the time. I have covered in-depth hygiene, relationship, and sex-ed things with as well, but I don't really need to prompt anything about the optionals -- she's made clear she's very aware of them and happy to talk and ask me about them when she wants to. When she's had some issues with sweat/teen smell, she was happy to discuss options with me. If I bring them up out of no where, she worries she's done something wrong, so for optional things, I just don't, and for health/safety things, I frame things carefully.

I have another child who never asks anything, who has previous ran out of the room when others have asked questions he's uncomfortable with, and while he went through the same lessons as his sister diligently, he feels they were 'thorough enough' and pretty much coasts on that. With him, I need to make a lot more effort -- when his sister asked for a razor, I asked him if he wanted one too, because I know he's not going to ask and neither his father or I have razors or similar in the house for him to use without asking as I did as a kid. I'm not sure he uses it after he was shown how, but it's all there for him.

I'd discuss the health/safety ones anyways, but I have to make sure the optionals and issues that he's having I have to make sure are brought up as he's shown he rarely asks anything without prompting and when he does bring things up, he has rarely thought them through beyond 'I have an idea' and needs someone to give him information to process and discuss unlike his sister who brings me preferences and ideas & I'm just facilitating her interest.

I've another daughter who is in the 'I'm not asking nothing' camp though she benefits from being able to try out things with her sister (we've already had trying bras because her big sister had them and then deciding she doesn't want to anymore) and my youngest son is in the 'I will discuss everything at you' camp so far. I'll handle them each differently depending on how they are as they get older.

Deodorant and leg shaving are two very different camps. One is a hygiene thing, showering and keeping fresh etc. The other isn't.

I agree with things like personal hygiene, so using deodorant etc. However things like shaving, no. That should be up to this child in question, a parent can discuss options but I wouldn't proactively be buying razors, waving strips or whatever for my daughter unless she makes the decision herself. It's not for me to tell her she should look a certain way.

Yanbu,

But

hair removal I wouldnt class as something where I needed to present the options for discussion, since it's completely fine to leave it natural and if anything our generation were led into feeling like we should remove it, pointless really. Most girls notice what their peers do by mid teens and decide for themselves.

I think probably the other thread has upset you due to your experiences as a child.

Bringing up hair removal is not the same as making sure there is access to sanitary products.

To be clear, I'm not saying hair removal is necessary, I'm just saying a lot of children and teens who can't source hair removal products themselves feel uncomfortable requesting them from their parents and feel uncomfortable about their bodies because of it. As I did and many PP have also said they felt. I understand it's not my right to force my perceptions of beauty onto my DC but equally I think some PP are forcing their opinions on hair removal onto their DC by not facilitating access to hair removal products for children who may want them.

My parents used to have a lot of arguments about how how little money they had (and how my dad was spending on stuff they couldn't afford). There was a lot of sighing when things like requests for school trip money came in.

It meant I never asked for things like lunch money (they did give me money but the amount was nowhere near enough), sanitary products (another one using loo roll here) or bras (I was teased at school for not having one - I was quite well developed) as I thought that I couldn't really ask for anything. I do think it was up to my parents to pro-actively realise that I needed these things and not wait for me to realise that it was ok to ask.

I think it’s a parent’s job to show their kids lots of different options - hair removal case in point, I find hairy legs uncomfortable, our nanny does like to shave so has hairy legs. DD has had conversations about how mummy likes smooth legs and nanny doesn’t, different people luke different things. Daddy only shaves once a week, grandad likes his face to be smooth every day.

I grew up very different to OP (polar opposite really and we’re really close) but my mum was still kind of awkward about teenage stuff like waxing and tampons, I wish she had been a little more upfront about what the different options were, or frankly even just stuck a range of products in the cupboard for me to investigate.

Not all families are the same though.

I never got on with my mum and I never felt able to talk to her about anything.

Plenty of families have a different dynamic. The children know their parents are approachable and kind and so would ask for advice/ or if they wanted to start shaving.

Fwiw both my DDs said no thanks to a razor or anything. They don't do pits or legs. We are all very fair so it's understandably not necessarily a concern they have.

I see threads with mums saying DD has hair here or there and it doesn't seem to bother her but I think she should start removing it.

All families have different dynamics ways of doing things etc and children are people who are happy to ask or shy etc.

Most parents know their own children!

To assume that all those parents are as crap as your mum (or mine) is because it's sensitive for you probably.

Those mums aren't all distant/ don't care.

I think hair removal is in a different category to deodorant and sanpro. The latter two are a hygiene issue, but a teen / preteen may genuinely not be bothered by body hair and shouldn’t feel pressured into removing it.

Bringing it up is not the same as pressuring. In fact it could even reassure the girl about resisting peer pressure to remove hair if she doesn't want to.

I made it clear to my dd that it was entirely up to her, and that although it's absolutely fine to remove hair if you want to, I thought it was great that a lot of girls were now feeling able to choose not to.

I do cringe a bit when people say they will wait until their child is unhappy before they stop walking round naked in front of them or changing tampons or whatever.

@fat13

I do cringe a bit when people say they will wait until their child is unhappy before they stop walking round naked in front of them or changing tampons or whatever.

who the heck ever finds it normal to change a tampon in front of their children?

YANBU OP. My experience as a young teen was that I only asked for these things (bra, razor, deodorant, acne treatment, etc) when I started to get bullied by people for not having them.
I really wished my parents would have intervened sooner and saved me a lot of upset. I genuinely just think they didn’t think about this stuff and didn’t seem to realise how horrible other kids can be.

Half of Mumsnet!

Tbf it’s often necessary when you have a baby but much beyond 2 is grim.

I definitely bring things like deodorant and sanitary products to my child. Hair removal, makeup, all the sexist grooming imposed on women is entirely different. I don’t want to encourage my daughter to participate. We do have conversations about social norms and I try to make it clear that if she wants to try any of these practices I am happy to help and will supply products and lessons, but it is entirely her decision.

YANBU to an extent but you are looking at it through a very extreme angle. Most kids have the basics and extras provided for and a lot have the kind of relationship where they have high expectations of their parents and arent afraid of their temper so are much more likely to ask

I think people who where raised with all this out in the open have no idea at all how those of us who where raised knowing nothing felt as children/teenagers.

I didn’t have sanitary products I the house as the adult didn’t need them so none where purchased. In fact I was never given deodorant until my secondary school pulled them in for a meeting because I smelt. I stole a razor to shave. I got to 19 before I knew I could and was allowed to use tampons.

I still feel I always stink and no matter how much deodorant, body spray and perfume I use I believe I smell.

The amount of times I had to tie my school jumper around my waist and left flooded school chairs behind.

My boys has had deodorant and hair gel and all that ready in his room since he was 8, my oldest daughter knows where the pads are, I wax her legs because she asks, she has her own deodorant and applies it, she’s got the crop top/sports bras not that she tends to bother with them but I’ve made sure it’s all available for her to use or have as soon as she might need or want it she’s 9.

As others have said it depends on the subject.

If it is something that needs to be said- like the use of deodorant- I will say it.
I instigate a conversation if there are choices to be made. Like about sanitary products as I want DD (17) to move away from disposable ones, like myself for environmental reasons.
As for food. My DC are old enough to make themselves something like a sandwich or a bowl of cereal. Again, this was established through conversation rather than telling because there is a choice to be made.

I agree OP. My mum took the approach that she’d just wait for me to ask for things, but I was too embarrassed. I was dying to ask for a razor or hair removal cream from about 11 when I got underarm hair, and same for wanting my first bra, but I felt really uncomfortable bringing the issues up and I used to wish so much that she would. I was jealous of my friends who’s mums were more proactive in providing sanitary products (I got them but I had to ask and I was embarrassed) and taking them bra shopping etc. I’m going to be proactive with my dd. Offering hair removal products is not the same as forcing or encouraging it, it’s just offering. A good percentage of girls will want to remove some body hair ultimately.

@Horst I think people who where raised with all this out in the open have no idea at all how those of us who where raised knowing nothing felt as children/teenagers.

Exactly! As a teenager, I was so envious of DFriends who would talk of going home and sitting at the table, having dinner with DPs, talking about their days etc. They had no idea how it felt for me to go home to... nothing.

I have DSs but if I think of my hypothetical DD I would like to think I would communicate about stuff with her without her having to ask. My Mum told me I could use her Ladyshave if I wanted to, and we had a plentiful supply of sanitary products.

When DSs were at Middle School when I caught a whiff and they were given deodorant and told to use it.

I don't walk around naked in front of my DC, I never did and neither of them ever saw me use sanitary products of any sort.

I threatened to throw my daughters a menarche party. You can buy cakes and everything

I just left razors, sanitary stuff, deoderant anything around. They mostly talk about it with their friends anyway, and if they have older sisters it's easy.

YANBU that parents should provide food, sanitary wear and have a gentle word with a smelly teenager, but YABU to equate shaving legs with all that. It's unnecessary, it's a stupid sexist societal standard and I wouldn't be encouraging my kids (if I had them) to do it. That is one thing I'd not mention, and if they decided to shave of their own volition then so be it.

I was going to say the same. Food and essentials like san pro shouldnt need to be requested.
However I would put hair removal in the same category. DD (nearly 15) wanted to shave her legs last summer. I persuaded her to use wax (I do it for her) because it lasts longer and no risk of cutting herself. In the winter she didnt bother and had hairy legs, I wait for her to ask me to do them for her because I dont want her yo think its unacceptable to have hairy legs