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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think "I'll wait for them to ask" is bad parenting?

136 replies

SesameOrangutan · 02/07/2021 17:08

There's a thread I've just seen where a parent has said they're contemplating asking their DC whether they want something that they really should've had a long time ago but that they don't want to offer it to them because they want the DC to come to them and ask for it of their own volition.
I've had friends with this too - like a friend whose DD had hairy legs and she was waiting for her daughter to bring it up and ask about hair removal instead of her mentioning it. A lot of children/teens really smell bad but their parents are waiting for them to bring up wearing deodorant (which they won't until it's too late because they won't know they smell until someone else points it out).
When I was a child/teen, we grew up without much money and I never felt like I could ask for anything. DM seemed completely oblivious that things I needed weren't being provided for and, because she had a temper, I never felt comfortable asking for anything or bringing anything up myself. DM would never, ever see my childhood that way and genuinely believes we had a very close relationship. My wages from my part-time job went directly into her account. I never had sanitary products because I couldn't ask my mum for them so I used toilet roll instead (which doesn't work btw), I used to shave my legs/armpits at friends houses in their bathrooms when I asked to use the toilet, I didn't eat breakfast or lunch (my mum ate at work and it didn't seem to occur to her that there was nothing at home for breakfast/lunch).
I wonder how many well meaning parents are putting all the responsibility on their children to ask for basic things that they need - and how many children are too scared, embarrassed or naive to ask for it. AIBU to think that a major part of being a parent is pro-actively providing for your child or asking about their needs instead of always sitting and waiting for instructions from a child on what they need?

OP posts:
SesameOrangutan · 02/07/2021 17:30

@NoSquirrels

I think the thing with optional stuff like hair removal is that if you have good, open communication with your teen, and are happy to chat periods and birth control and spot treatments and deodorant and would never withhold those things, then it’s fine to assume they will ask you if they need/want it. And you know your own children, too. If you’re a good parent you know if Teen A would die rather than ask, or if Teen B is very self-conscious, or whatever, and so you modify your approach to the individual.

I don’t think it’s a one size fits all issue.

I agree with you to an extent. My mum would 10000000000% say and genuinely believe we had a good, positive, open relationship and I would ask her for what I need. It's simply not how I viewed it. We have a really great relationship now that I'm an adult though - because I don't rely on her for things and she doesn't have that stress triggering her temper.
OP posts:
Minezatea · 02/07/2021 17:30

I can see that you had some really horrible experiences growing up. I think this might be affecting how you look at things. Really we need to create an environment in which kids feel they can ask for things. If we don't then even if we try and pre-empt everything, we will still sometimes fail to provide that they need. The leg hair example I think is a bad one. I would not discuss that unless prompted by the child as any mention by it, from a parent, could be experienced as perpetuation of unnecessary body shaming. I would bring up personal hygiene though as most people who smell don't know they smell and you're setting your child up for a difficult life if you don't teach them that early on.

NerrSnerr · 02/07/2021 17:30

RAISING hair removal with your daughter is horrible parenting! You're basically projecting your own issues on your child!

I don't agree with this. My mum would have loved Mumsnet 30 years ago and she didn't shave her legs because she didn't want to conform. Which is fine, but she made it clear that she wouldn't agree with me removing body hair so I didn't raise it with her and of course she didn't raise it with me. I of course did what many others did as a teen, butchered my legs with a blunt orange bic.

I would have loved to have a mum who discussed these things with me and told me what my options were so I could chose what to do with my own body hair, but with support.

I am now nearly 40 and sometimes choose to shave my legs and sometimes don't. I'm not worried about going swimming with hairy legs etc.

When my daughter gets older I will discuss body hair with her and it'll be up to her whether she removes is or not but will let her know that if she chooses to remove we can discuss what way she would want and get what she needs.

Lemonwoe · 02/07/2021 17:31

When I was a teenager I never asked about sanitary towels. They just were in the bathroom cupboard. It had never occurred to me to even think about asking for them. Horrified that for some girls they have to resort to loo roll

Livingintheclouds · 02/07/2021 17:32

Hair removal aside, If i think there's something that they need but haven't mentioned I just ask - for example if I think my daughter needs to wash her hair I just ask her when the last time she washed it, she gets the hint.
I also make sure she knows she CAN ask about something. Kids can be very reticent about talking about personal things, especially with parents. I remember telling her if she ever wanted to shave or know how she could just ask me. I said it casually and made sure it was her decision to make (I don't shave my legs, though I did at her age). Sometimes kids think we should be able to read their minds to save their embarrassment. The last thing a kid wants to feel is ignored or overlooked, no matter how many times they tell you to leave them alone!

NoSquirrels · 02/07/2021 17:33

My mum would 10000000000% say and genuinely believe we had a good, positive, open relationship and I would ask her for what I need. It's simply not how I viewed it.

But I do absolutely know that my pubertal pre-teen is able to raise this stuff with me because they have done so. So we’re seeing it through a different lens.

Do you have children of this age yet, OP?

AnUnoriginalUsername · 02/07/2021 17:33

I absolutely think parents should bring up body hair with kids. To inform them what society does think and that they have a choice. There's nothing worse than being informed by your peers that women "should" shave. You should prepare them for that conversation.

BogRollBOGOF · 02/07/2021 17:34

If DM had been more open and proactive about body hair, I wouldn't have dealt with it myself by finding an old rusty razor lying around and dealing with it myself. In her head it didn't need doing. I danced, and wore sleeveless leotards where my underarm hair ended up on public display. I probably did shave my legs far too early, but again that's because open conversation wasn't instigated.

I might not pre-empt every situation well, but because I talk openly with the DCs about some things, it makes it easier to approach if something else does arise sooner.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 02/07/2021 17:35

Sesameorangutan
Don’t want to upset you but you don’t seem to be aware that you were neglected/abused as a child. Your mother stole your money and didn’t provide you with essentials. This is completely different to not giving your child hang ups by suggesting they are too hairy.

aSofaNearYou · 02/07/2021 17:36

I think there's a difference between leg hair and deodorant. Shaving is a choice rather than a necessity, whilst hygiene is something they need to be made aware of and compelled to keep on top of. When I first started going through puberty, there was a year or so where I'd started to smell and didn't notice, that's embarrassing and nobody told me. So I think you are half right.

WildWestWanda · 02/07/2021 17:40

@UpSlyDown

I agree with you OP 100%. Especially things like sanitary products etc. My mum was a doctor and was great- had a frank honest open conversation about periods when I started and made sure we always had pads/tampons in the house so I never had to ask for them (i would have felt comfortable asking her for them anyway but was nice to never be caught short etc). I hope to be the same for my children. Surely things like shaving legs is part of the puberty chats you’d have which would start when they are really quite young?
So you’d happily teach your dd from when she is “really young” that female body hair is something to be embarrassed by?
HelenHywater · 02/07/2021 17:41

I don't think I've ever discussed hair removal with my teens. And they all seem fine - in that they do what they want. Hair or no hair. I buy razors (otherwise they steal mine) or they add whatever they want to the online shopping basket.

Not providing sanitary products and food is neglectful.

Thehenbunringsock · 02/07/2021 17:42

I think if you have to make a point of raising it then you've been doing a slightly crappy job throughout.

When I was a kid I'd see my mum use deodorant and shave her legs, so I'd know what all those things were anyway.

You don't need to 'raise' something ceremoniously and with lots of fanfare. You can discuss things over a long period of time and then gently mention it when the time is right.

godmum56 · 02/07/2021 17:43

I agree...i think talking about options for, hair removal, including not doing it, is not promoting norms but promoting choice. Kids don't live in a vaccuum, other kids at school will talk about it and better to talk about choices and options than to find your child has carved up their legs, or worse, their underarms, with their Dad's razor.

ahoyshipmates · 02/07/2021 17:45

For those who are saying wait... wait until they are laughed at and humiliated in front of everyone in the school PE changing room, you mean?

Blossomtoes · 02/07/2021 17:47

@Looneytune253

Wow I would defo say the other way around. Bringing things like hair removal up with your teens/Pre teens is setting them up for a life of hair removal and thinking it's not normal. They have plenty of time for that. Wait till they want to defo not bad parenting
I agree on that one. But I definitely told mine he needed to shower every day and supplied him with deodorant, it would have been really cruel not to.
kindaclassy · 02/07/2021 17:49

Which is fine, but she made it clear that she wouldn't agree with me removing body hair so I didn't raise it with her

but that's another way of raising it.

I would never start talking to my daughters about hair removal, and imply they have hairy legs or a moustache, it's awful.

That said, it's well known in the house that I get the basics shaved or waxed or whatever, so I can't see them hesitating to ask to have their eyebrows done too. Then it will be age depending.

In the same way I wouldn't let my 7 year old boy 'shave" just yet..

yupyupyup · 02/07/2021 17:49

When I was around 11, I started my period and my boobs were getting big. I had no idea what was happening to me as my mum was seemingly incapable of communicating with me. I used loo roll until she found out and then she gave me a leaflet of some sort and bought me some pads.

One sports day, a DFriend quietly told me all the boys were laughing at me because my boobs were bouncing around all over the place when I was doing the high jump. I was so enthusiastic about sports and I was mortified to hear this. It was probably another year before DGM bought me a bra. I never bothered with sports again.

It's only now in my 30s I'm realising how neglectful my mother was and we no longer have any contact. I'm a stepmum and would be heartbroken if my DSC felt the same as me at that age. I do not accept the argument that 'times were different' and that somehow I can forgive my mother for this treatment because 'it's how she was brought up.' It's how I was brought up and I know it's totally unacceptable.

Mamaof2males · 02/07/2021 17:50

@SesameOrangutan exactly the same here, we had very little. I worked from age 13 for £1 ph and bought my own deodorant, sanitary products etc even my own school trousers and jumper. I look back now as a mother myself and feel sad. My 10yo DS has started smelling / pre pubescent so the past year I’ve been buying his shower gels, face washes, deodorant and really explaining a good hygiene routine. Do not want my children being bullied for being the one ‘that smells’ as it sticks and it’s completely avoidable.

kindaclassy · 02/07/2021 17:50

@ahoyshipmates

For those who are saying wait... wait until they are laughed at and humiliated in front of everyone in the school PE changing room, you mean?
you are projecting...
ThursdayLastWeek · 02/07/2021 17:55

I think it’s a bit broad to call it bad parenting.

Surely it’s a case by case kind of thing. At some point these young adults will be adults and have to be able to look after their own interests.

I would say it’s good to encourage them to talk to whoever they trust - not necessarily their parent.

RosieGuacamosie · 02/07/2021 17:55

I sliced my legs to bits several times with a basic razor I’d illicitly acquired because I was too scared to ask my mum. I also managed to shave half my eyebrow off trying to get rid of my hideous monobrow and was the laughing stock of the school for about two weeks.

If/when I have a daughter the message will be “some women like to remove their leg/armpit etc hair, if you ever feel you want to, let me know and I’ll get you some products and show you”

No “pressure” Hmm but equally recognising what many teens want but might be afraid to ask for.

Comedycook · 02/07/2021 18:00

Its a balance really.

I noticed my dd was starting to smell on hot days so bought her some deodorant and told her when you get to a certain age, it's a good idea to use it. I didn't tell her she smelt obviously. I've left sanitary towels in her room even though she doesn't need them yet. I don't bring up hair removal as I'm worried I'll make her self conscious or suddenly see it as a problem when it isn't.

I regularly ask both my ds and dd if they need any toiletries, clothing etc

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 02/07/2021 18:03

Dd was laughed at for her hairy legs in y5 which caught me off guard. I have very blonde, fine leg hair so don't shave but she has dark hair.
Everything else I try and stay ahead of the curve. Ds in in y5 and I got a whiff of his armpits on a warm day. Deodorant was promptly added to the shopping list.
Yes I think hygiene and other important stuff should be easily available with no fuss or taboo.

Pikachusbutt · 02/07/2021 18:05

@ahoyshipmates

For those who are saying wait... wait until they are laughed at and humiliated in front of everyone in the school PE changing room, you mean?
The world isn't like that anymore. A lot of teenagers are chosing not to shave as a statement of non-comformity.
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