Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

@Lilypansy

I witnessed someone at a toddler group once - one of the actual organisers - charge over to their child, smack them really hard on the arm, and shout 'We DO NOT hit!' hmm How can a child learn not to hit, by being hit?? I've read this argument so many times! It assumes that a small child is capable of perceiving the irony of a situation, which cannot be true. Irony is an adult conception. A smack, after naughtiness, is far more likely to be associated with the wrongdoing, and hopefully the lesson is learned. The irony argument is not quite as silly as the 'you don't do it to an adult so why do it to a child' one. You wouldn't pacify an adult by cuddling them, or send them to their room, or feed them with a spoon, either. Children are not adults.

I don't think a small child appreciates the irony, but you are directly modelling the behaviour 'if someone does something I dislike I hit them' which is exactly the behaviour you're trying to discourage. It's pretty obvious why that's a silly thing to do. Children learn more from copying and observing than they do from any punishment.

I know loads of people that do.

I started hitting back at age 14. It did stop it. I think my mum tried hitting back a couple of times but I'd then hit back and it would turn into a fight. Lovely functional household! We aren't close now.
I've managed to bring up well behaved teenagers without hitting once and our relationship is all the better for it

I smacked my older dc once or twice (now 18&21) but have never smacked my youngest (14). I’m not proud of it, but having been smacked as a child, it seemed a ‘normal’ thing to do. Once I got a bit older and reevaluated my parenting (I was only 16 when dc1 was born) I realised that I couldn’t justify violence towards my dc in any way, shape, or form. I’d left a violent husband, and if it wasn’t ok for him to hit me, it wasn’t ok to hit my dc either.
I’d say among friends with older dc it’s not uncommon to have used smacking, although most agree now that it’s not a good thing. It’s much less common (or less talked about) in those with younger dc.

Hitting a child is never ok, whether you call it a smack or not, it's wrong. My husband grew up in a family that smack their kids. I was very very clear at the outset that I would never hit mine and if he ever did that I'd leave him. Funnily enough they're pretty well behaved kids despite our lack of physical violence towards them.

@stressbandit

It's like when someone's baby or child bites and some parents bite them back stop doing that shit seriously!

The fact some people would resort to biting a child, before anything else, is horrifying.

Whilst my kids have driven me insane/royally pissed me off I've never felt the urge to smack them. Me and my brother got smacked occasionally looking back I feel a bit bad because we probably drove our mum to the brink to cause he to do that

I’d like to think that most people don’t smack their children. I have 2dc and not once have I raised a hand to them and i never would. I was often smacked as a child, and at times it was severe. My df even shoved soap down my mouth once. I’m 40 now and to this day I resent him for it. Basically my mum was overwhelmed with having so many kids and was to soft with us and my dad was far to strict so no wonder me my brothers and sisters pushed the boundaries. My df still jokes about shoving soap down in my mouth and seemed to enjoy telling my kids what he did, like he was proud or something. I still see born parents and they’ve mellowed and are good with my dc but I’ll never truly forgive them both, my df for treating me the way he did and my dm for allowing it.

i was smacked as a child (only 10 years ago so not a ‘different time’), on the legs and bum. i was a naughty child but if i remember correctly it was most days, i remember the fear of being ran after and forced down on the ground and getting smacked. after a while, when i was about 7 or 8? i would laugh and tell them it didn’t hurt while crying because i was so numb to it. he would also put his hand over my nose and mouth to get me to be quiet. when people do this to me as a joke now, i panic and have to grab their hand off.
it has effected me as in i get flashbacks to it sometimes and can always feel the fear.
my dad (the one who would always do the smacking) was abused under the illusion of punishment as a child. he was given the belt and had his head shoved down the side of the sofa etc. he’s only 45 so not ancient but it was a ‘different time’, but i still think this is unacceptable even for then.
when i was younger, i jokingly got a belt and pretended i was going to hit him with it as a ‘joke’ (i think i had heard about how at school in the ‘olden days’ children used to get the belt for being naughty) when he was being ‘naughty’, and he broke down crying.
my dad is a big man, and it still affected him like that.
it’s wrong.

I don't understand the people who claim they did it but as an entirely non painful 'tap' at all - if it doesn't hurt then why would a child want to avoid it? Is it that it's humiliating? On some level it has to be unpleasant if the idea is that it's a deterrent, surely? So I don't really believe that it was indeed so light as to cause no discomfort.

Smacking your kids because you yourself were smacked and consider it normal is a pathetic excuse. I have ptsd from my childhood and would never put my own dc through what I went though. The way I raise my kids is a far cry from how I was raised.

A smack, after naughtiness, is far more likely to be associated with the wrongdoing, and hopefully the lesson is learned.

Only if they're capable of understanding the concept of wrongdoing in the first place.
They learn the concept of wrongdoing when they are smacked! Normally, parents who smack accompany it with a reason, such as saying, 'we don't do x or y.'

In some American states, teachers and principals hit children with wooden paddles. That’s intolerable and barbaric.
I’m over fifty, and was spanked far more often than my siblings because I had undiagnosed autism. My mother has also emotionally abusive to me. SEN children are probably more likely to be abused, as they are generally more difficult.

They learn the concept of wrongdoing when they are smacked! Normally, parents who smack accompany it with a reason, such as saying, 'we don't do x or y.'

No, they learn the concept of being hurt by you and they see you modelling the behaviour of hitting out of displeasure.

If they are able to understand you saying "that's wrong because xyz", then they don't need you to hit them to explain it.

I was bought you smacked until a certain age. It was the norm obviously. But I don’t know anyone who smacks now and I work with children but who knows I suppose what goes on behind closed doors. I’m pretty confident none of my friends or family members smack though.

If they are able to understand you saying "that's wrong because xyz", then they don't need you to hit them to explain it.
Possibly, but a smack reinforces the message.
I do get tired of what I frequently see, or more accurately, read on Mumsnet, as ineffective parenting, from parents who have not yet finished bringing up their children. A quick look at the teenagers threads should be enough to point out the consequences of a failure to properly discipline children.
I'm not saying that smacking is the only resolution, but neither does it justify the cries of horror that it so often elicits.
My own children were smacked when young, and are now perfectly well balanced, successful women in their mid forties with families of their own.

I'll be honest I've smacked DS, not for things like refusing to go to bed, or drawing on the wall, or answering back, breaking the glass kitchen window throwing stones. General naughty kid things. That doesn't bother me, time out and a talk works for all those.

I have smacked DS when he sunk his teeth so deep in to my arm age 3, he ripped a chunk out and I needed stitches. I smacked DS when he pulled my hair out with a fist full aged about 4 making a bald spot and my scalp bleed where had pulled the hair out.

I didn't even think, I was in searing pain and I wanted him to get off me and stop abusing me. The smack shocked him to stop his action. Those are the only two times I ever had, and he's now 6 and we've had no repeated behaviour of physically abusing me.

I sat down with him after the smacks and explained he was hurting me and I needed him to stop, he accepted it said sorry we hugged and moved on.

But no I wouldn't smack for just general naughty kid behaviour, which I know some do.

As much as it never hurt me to be smacked as a child, l would never in a million years smack my daughter because of the message it gives her. And it would make me really uncomfortable if l was to see anyone else doing it to their child.

@Lilypansy

If they are able to understand you saying "that's wrong because xyz", then they don't need you to hit them to explain it. Possibly, but a smack reinforces the message. I do get tired of what I frequently see, or more accurately, read on Mumsnet, as ineffective parenting, from parents who have not yet finished bringing up their children. A quick look at the teenagers threads should be enough to point out the consequences of a failure to properly discipline children. I'm not saying that smacking is the only resolution, but neither does it justify the cries of horror that it so often elicits. My own children were smacked when young, and are now perfectly well balanced, successful women in their mid forties with families of their own.

The only thing a smack reinforces is your ability to and willingness to hurt your children. It is the epitome of one-dimensional communication (for want of a better word) with no nuance or intelligence to it. The idea that you could use it to reinforce anything more complex than "or else I'll do this" is absolutely laughable.

A quick look on the teenager threads? Perhaps you need to take more than a "quick look", though admittedly that's not compatible with the thought process that uses blunt pain to explain relatively complex concepts. What you'll find, almost inevitably, is a complex back story in which the teenager's behaviour comes from a holistic environment of causes. In other words, a complicated situation in which various factors play off each other and not simply "they didn't get hit as children".

Has anyone on these threads ever said that NOT being hit by their parents was a bad thing? That they wish they had been?

I'm glad your children are ok despite the bad parenting techniques you used back in the days when marital rape was legal and gay people couldn't marry. Nowadays, we know better.

@Hardbackwriter

I don't understand the people who claim they did it but as an entirely non painful 'tap' at all - if it doesn't hurt then why would a child want to avoid it? Is it that it's humiliating? On some level it has to be unpleasant if the idea is that it's a deterrent, surely? So I don't really believe that it was indeed so light as to cause no discomfort.

It's a blatant attempt to minimise the abuse by claiming it isn't actually abuse. Of course, they intend it to hurt, or it wouldn't be a smack. Tapping a child in a painfree way wouldn't be a deterrent, would it? It'd be the equivalent of tapping them on the shoulder. People are very cautious to dress hitting their child up as a 'tap'.

I would love to see it banned. Smacking another adult is assault so it should be no different for a child who can’t remove themselves from the situation or leave etc.

Forgot to mention. My ds is autistic. He’s only 8 yet he can be extremely aggressive at times. I’ve been hit kicked had things thrown at me etc and he’s caused me to bruise on many occasions, grabbed my hair backwards when I was driving etc. Don’t get me wrong I have spent hard earned money to pay for therapists and have had to work on strategies with him to reduce the episodes of aggression. But my point is no matter how aggressive my ds has been with me (due to frustration, sensory issues, being overwhelmed) I’ve always kept my cool and never laid a finger on him. So when I read about parents smacking their kids out of frustration and essentially loosing THEIR control it really pisses me off!

Thanks for your comments on the thread @DrSbaitso

Utterly horrified by @Lilypansy comments, until the part when she admitted she hit her children when they were small. Of course her comments make sense now.

To be honest, while it's wrong to lose control and lash out at your kids, I've got some sympathy with people who, having done it, accept and understand that it was wrong and unacceptable, and try to find ways of improving.

It's the people who use "end of my tether" as an excuse, to make out that it wasn't wasn't bad if you were really angry when you did it, who essentially try to minimise it, that are a problem.

Children can wind you right up, but so much of it comes down to the environment they're in and the behaviour that is modelled to them. If you create a calm, happy environment where anger and loss of temper isn't normal, they see good behaviour from you and you have de-escalation techniques when trouble starts...then you're much less likely to get to a point where you're about to lose your rag.