Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

Why is it that hitting is only considered ok when they're small?

It’s absolutely not normal in my friendship group and I wouldn’t stay friends with someone who thought it was OK.

It wasn’t normal when I was growing up in the 90s either, though I do remember my parents telling me they used to get smacked when they were little.

I’ve not read the whole thread and I have adult children but I’ve only ever known a couple of people who i know definitely have smacked their children . I am mid 50s and I wasn’t smacked as a child , which I think is pretty uncommon for that time but I often read threads about 60/70s upbringings and have decided my parents were very different . It would never have crossed my mind to smack our children , I wouldn’t even smack the dog .

@DrSbaitso

Why is it that hitting is only considered ok when they're small?

I’m not sure it’s too difficult to imagine why parents might use a smack instead of words when dealing with small children. Their behaviour is often extreme. Communication can be limited. Perhaps the adult is fraught and sleep deprived. The answer is not shaming it’s educating. Which hopefully this thread will succeed in doing.

Smacking is awful and should be illegal. But lets face it, very hard to police. I was smacked as a child, mid 80s and I still remember how much I feared it.

I have two small children and would never smack them. I honestly dont know anyone that does and I wouldnt want to remain friends with them if I found out they did.

All it teaches is that violence is the answer. Terrible life lesson.

@DrSbaitso

I think saying nasty things on the heat of the moment can be just as damaging as a small smack, of I'm honest.

You mean "hitting". Yes, but we rarely hear people telling us that calling their kids names or whatever is just another form of parenting, that there's no other way to correct their behaviour, that it never did them any harm, that it's in any way a good thing.

As for "the heat of the moment", well that's just an absolute parenting fail and the fact that "none of us is perfect" doesn't make it OK, or right to downplay it. Presumably one of the things we are trying to teach our children is how to handle their own anger and frustration?

I don't mean hitting, I explained that it was as hard as patticake, and I genuinely mean that. Is patticake hitting?

'In the heat of the moment' yes there has been the occaisonal raised voice in my household. And I didn't say I said anything nasty, only that I believed that could be more damaging. I don't shout often as I am fairly quiet by nature. The very occasional overspill. Not great, and not how I teach my children to handle their own frustration, but still human, and I counsel other new mothers with this in mind, rather than being as judgemental as you are.

As for "the heat of the moment", well that's just an absolute parenting fail and the fact that "none of us is perfect" doesn't make it OK, or right to downplay it

I have parenting fails every day. Not smacking/hitting, but I am sure I miss something or other that would make me the perfect parent.

On the other hand, when I realise I have got something wrong I apologise and do what I can to put it right. In the long run perhaps it is better that my DCs learn that they don't have to be perfect either.

The guy on R4 today from a right to smack organisation constantly referred to a "tap on the back of the hand" as if that was the most usual form of physical punishment.

Really? Does anyone do this? I'd be just as against this as a smack but it did seem disingenuous. I've only ever seen parents smack their kids with the intention of causing pain.

I’m not sure it’s too difficult to imagine why parents might use a smack instead of words when dealing with small children. Their behaviour is often extreme. Communication can be limited.Perhaps the adult is fraught and sleep deprived.

More extreme than an angry 15 year old is capable of being?

If they are too young for you to communicate why something is wrong through reason, then they won't understand it any better from being hit.

Fraught and sleep deprived etc, just another dress up term for an adult failing to control themselves and hurting a small child. We may not all be perfect (irrelevant) but that doesn't mean we get to downplay it when we fuck up. How would we react to the actual child losing control because they're fraught or tired?

Just be honest. People People hit small children and not teenagers do it because the teenager can smack you right back. How many people on here, me included, found their fraught and stressed parents were suddenly able to control themselves when we made it clear we could lamp them too?

I don't mean hitting

Of course you do. I appreciate that other words are more palatable, but hitting your kids is hitting your kids. What seems like a "tap" or "patticake" (?) or whatever to you, who is not receiving it, can seem much harder to a small person, and anyway there's still the point of attempting to use pain, force and intimidation, however nicely you think you're doing it.

I know people that hit their teens, they wouldn’t dare hit their parents back though so 🤷‍♀️

@PumpkinKlNG

I know people that hit their teens, they wouldn’t dare hit their parents back though so 🤷‍♀️

Well, there you go.

I didn't dare hit back until I was 18. But if I had been psychologically able to hit back sooner, I'm very sure the hitting would have stopped sooner. He was still bigger and heavier and stronger than I was at that point.

I don’t think it would stop if they did tbh, they would probably get hit harder / more.

I’ve smacked ds once. He gouged my eye and it was the only way to get him to let go but we don’t use smacking as discipline. I know people that do (including people who smack their kids to stop them smacking 🙄 ) but it’s not for me or oh. We both were smacked growing up, it’s shit.

@PumpkinKlNG

I don’t think it would stop if they did tbh, they would probably get hit harder / more.

Well, doesn't smacking work well for de-escalation!

@PumpkinKlNG

I don’t think it would stop if they did tbh, they would probably get hit harder / more.

My mother soon stopped when I slapped her back across her face.

i suppose you could argue that if a child is deliberately hurting somebody else, doing the same back to them is an effective way to teach them that what they’re doing hurts and if they don’t like it, they shouldn’t do it to others

So if your child stamped on your foot, you would stamp on their foot? If they scratched you, you would scratch them back?
You are the adult and they are the child. There is a power imbalance. They are too young to fully understand consequences. You could try try teaching them this with resorting to violence.

People really do tie themselves into knots trying to justify abusing their own children.

Well I’m only speaking of the people I know, they wouldn’t stop even if they were hit back.

*without

So if your child stamped on your foot, you would stamp on their foot? If they scratched you, you would scratch them back?
You are the adult and they are the child. There is a power imbalance. They are too young to fully understand consequences. You could try try teaching them this with resorting to violence.

Tbf ive heard it said that if a child bites you to bite them back and they would never do it again, NOT something I would do, but people do it they just won’t tell you.

I witnessed someone at a toddler group once - one of the actual organisers - charge over to their child, smack them really hard on the arm, and shout 'We DO NOT hit!' hmm How can a child learn not to hit, by being hit??
I've read this argument so many times! It assumes that a small child is capable of perceiving the irony of a situation, which cannot be true. Irony is an adult conception. A smack, after naughtiness, is far more likely to be associated with the wrongdoing, and hopefully the lesson is learned.
The irony argument is not quite as silly as the 'you don't do it to an adult so why do it to a child' one.
You wouldn't pacify an adult by cuddling them, or send them to their room, or feed them with a spoon, either. Children are not adults.

@PumpkinKlNG

Well I’m only speaking of the people I know, they wouldn’t stop even if they were hit back.

I believe you, and they sound like a great illustration of why hitting your kids is really not good parenting.

My mum use to hit growing up, not often but she did occasionally, I remember one time she hit me and I defended myself and she twisted the whole thing to my brother and told him that I attacked her (she had hit me first and I defended myself) safe to say I got a smack off him for defending myself! And she didn’t stop hitting me after that either.

It's like when someone's baby or child bites and some parents bite them back stop doing that shit seriously!

I can remember swearing at my brother. I think I said piss off and my mum dragged me into the bathroom and rubbed Palmolive soap all in my mouth but my mum was nasty she would grind it all into your teeth and make you chew it and stuff. I'm 28 now and I still can't stand the smell of Palmolive.

A smack, after naughtiness, is far more likely to be associated with the wrongdoing, and hopefully the lesson is learned.

Only if they're capable of understanding the concept of wrongdoing in the first place. Like irony. And it's a very different concept to "because I'll be hurt by my caregiver otherwise", and even that assumes that they understand what they were hit for. For all they know, it could be because they took the red block and not the green one.

If they cannot understand why something is wrong or dangerous, you can't communicate it to them by hitting them. It's not a concept you can explain in brute force terms of pain and intimidation.

And while they may not have a complex understanding of the concept of irony, I can certainly see them being confused about being hit because they hit. And they'll certainly get the hypocrisy of it when they're older.