WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

Hybrid is being forced on us. We won't have great equipment for that or magically appearing dedicated office space in our houses. I am not feeling sympathy for those who despair about not being able to WFH when I am still locked out of my office & all forces pushing to keep things that way.

I honestly think that those saying public transport will be cut, and that wfh causes shoddy service are being short-sighted and/or missing the point.

Once off furlough I have been in my workplace almost full time. The commute has been a bit nicer because its quieter with less passengers. But I'm under no illusion that this will last. It's a commuter line with 4-6 trains per hour. The train company wont run 4-6 trains an hour at previously peak times, that are only a third full, because it wont be profitable. Theyll probably cut to 2 or 3 per hour and put prices up.

Even before Covid hit, both local authorities where I live had reduced office space, moved to hot desking and had non-public facing staff WFH for some of the time. There was actually a requirement to work from home 1 day pw.

My employer has given leases on some office space in favour of smaller space as return to mainly office working is not anticipated. They've found big savings on staff mileage, because people aren't travelling from client visits and external meetings and back to the office, and for a lot of work, it being done over the phone or by zoom/video call has proved a lot more efficient.

I certainly don't miss doing a 50-mile round trip for a F2F appointment with a client when the same work can be done from my kitchen in a one-hour phone call.

However, those staff for whom WFH hasn't worked well will be going back to the office, so we have the best of both and people are able to works best for them as long as it doesn't adversely impact clients or the service.

I think we're very lucky that our management are so flexible. And I really appreciate the efforts of all those who haven't had the opportunity to WFH because the nature of their work makes it impractical.

Suspect the public sector is a) more conservative; b) more used to operating in a paternalistic mindset (we can't trust the children at home alone!); and c) is more motivated to start pumping money back from into towns and cities by having commuters, people buying lunch and coffees and frequenting shops and restaurants during or after the working day.

I've also found that many public sector places aren't yet set up for remote working eg too much reliance on paper.

I think my issue is that the old way was shit, for everyone! I live in a big city, traffic jams for hours, pollution, houses going up in every available green space. Everyone needing to live close to the centre so cleaners and cafe workers have to live four bus rides away as they can't afford to live anywhere near the city centre. My friend gets three buses which takes an hour and a half to do her shift as a band 2 cleaner, goes home and then does the same journey again to do the second part of her split shift. She would love to live closer to our office but can't afford to.
I walk to work and would personally pick up any of my colleagues work that needed to be done in the office if it meant she didn't have to drive forty five minutes to sit at a desk and answer emails which she could do from home. If I think about the environmental impact on our whole team commuting in everyday rather than the majority of us staying at home it hurts me! As the only person close enough to walk I would happily be the in office person every day if I could prevent that.

@anon12345678901

I'm doing a mix atm with the view to return to the office full time soon. I'm looking forward to it, but I get many others will be anxious. However those saying vote with your feet, make sure you have another job to go to first. And don't think you're irreplaceable to your company, because there are many people job hunting at the moment. It may not be hard to find someone who wants a job, even if it means office working full time. I've always looked at wfh as a temporary measure, and at least I've saved over a years worth of commute. That's a bonus in my eyes, my job was given to me as full time office work, I'm not expecting them to change it.

There'll be a lot of movement in the jobs market in the next year or two. People wanting to WFH will have to move to other employers who allow that. Likewise, people wanting to work from the office will have to do the same. There'll be a lot of flux until a new equilibrium is found. But, yes, people need to make sure they have a new job to go to before they leave their existing job. I know a recruitment firm that are gearing up to a very busy couple of years and taking on new staff to be able to cope with the expected influx of applicants.

I don't think there is a one size fits all solution. Many love wfh and make it work. But equally many hate it. It's doable if you have a proper work space and can separate work/home life but for many workers that's not the reality.

We have kind of a hybrid at my work but the office has never been closed with full time wfh. I am delighted in that as I hate working at home for anything more than a day or so. Wfh doesn't particularly work well for my company. These who are wfh for a few days per week all day they are far more productive, however they are no longer part of the team as they choose to work late at night etc to fit in with their kids so it's impossible to get hold of them. Others end up picking up the urgent last minute things that need doing etc.

No doubt that customer service has suffered horrifically as a result of wfh. If people want wfh to work then that really needs to end. We are more than a year into this - if customer service is still lacking after this time then there is something wrong and companies cannot keep saying "oh but covid..."

I honestly think that those saying public transport will be cut,

Off course it will, less trains, reduced services, smaller carriages & likely increased prices.

[quote Badbadbunny]**@nokidshere* I don't want my soon to be working young adults on a laptop in their bedrooms. I want them out and about meeting varied and interesting people, not just seeing their immediate managers on a once a day zoom call.*

I fully agree. Continued WFH will screw the career prospects of our youngsters. How can they "learn on the job" when they have to continually phone/skype other staff members for advice - the other staff will soon get fed up of the constant stream of queries. My son is trying to sort out his "year in industry" part of his degree. Barely any firms are offering placement year jobs, the reason given being because they don't know if they'll have enough staff in the workplace to provide the training/mentoring required. In my own profession, accountancy, I've been looking at local accountancy firm websites who usually offer trainee/apprentice positions every Autumn - I've found one job on offer when usually there are dozens. Trainees/apprentices learn on the job from people around them, lots of that is informal and simply from observation/listening to what others are doing. All that's gone if you WFH.

My son has already had a year of being trapped in his tiny Uni flat doing literally everything online (he's had no face to face teaching at all all year - the staff aren't even on campus!). He's already fed up of not meeting people and doing everything online. There's no way on Earth he'd willingly accept a job on that same basis.

Our young adults are being treated terribly and if things don't change this Summer, there'll be long term implications for all of us.[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

All the opportunities that got them to that position have been snatched away from young people which is pretty shocking and sad actually

[quote 80caloriesofbiscuitplease]@Justanotherlurker how do you know I'm not living up North already?[/quote]
Because tha’s gorra cat norra whippet and new fangled t’electric to work from ome.

Another point is that if there are fewer people commuting, then there'll be fewer trains/buses as the supply will fall to meet demand. That means that the commute for people who just want to call into the office occasionally for meetings, or to work a few days per week will be worse for them, either due to fewer trains/buses, shorter trains, longer journeys as fewer trains make more stops, etc. People are deluded if they think the public transport will remain at levels to cater for huge (normal) numbers of commuters when far fewer people actually travel daily. There are consequences. WFH advocates need to be careful what you wish for

most people where I live actually drive to work.

Remember how clean the air was in the first lockdown? It was lovely. Fewer cars on the road? Yes please.

It’s sad that people are stuck in a mindset of office = good, wfh = bad. Things could be different, things could actually be better.

I like the idea of towns and cities having more people around in the week, with high streets having more of a “buzz”.

@nokidshere

I find that a lot of those crowing for a full return to the office are quite old school “presenteesim” types who measure success by the hours spent at the desk. Fuck that.

Most people I know who are 'crowing for a full return to the office' are people who feel like they are living at work rather than working from home.

Must admit that is the feeling amongst my friends who are wfh - they now live at work, and they all hate it for that reason and cannot wait to get back into the office and have some segregation of work/home life

Why do people think WFH means WFH 100% of the time?

A hybrid approach is all I'm asking for. A rota system with 50% in and 50% at home.

People who WFH are not “bloody special”. Don’t be envious. It may be your husband, father, daughter who gets a better work-life balance. It’s something we should all aspire to not drag everyone down because we feel miserable and trapped. I’ve been going to the office throughout but I’m not so narrow minded. It’s been a terrible year for all

*Neotraditional
Billandben444
I'd like all customer service employees to go back to their offices/call centres please. I'm fed up to the back teeth of having to listen to a pre-recorded jingle that apologises for possible dog/children noises in the background cos 'their employees are wfh' only to have the phone ring out and another disembodied voice telling me to fuck off cos they're busy. I'm fed up to the back teeth of having to join the long queue outside Barclays cos 'only one counter is open as our staff are wfh' and I'm fed up with friends posting pictures on FB of their garden/kitchen transformations when they're supposedly wfh. Oh, and please get Enfield's library employees out of the front door and back into their workplace so my local branch can reopen.

You sound an absolute delight - bitter much?*

You need to look up the meaning of bitter.
No need for personal attacks just because I give some perfectly valid examples of why wfh doesn't work for the customer.

I also think office workers need to tread extremely carefully..... Because if a job can be done from hme there's absolutely no reason that it cant be outsourced abroad for a quarter of the cost......a bit like the poor staff in my bank who spent years pushing the banking app onto us and are now reduced to a three day week. I've a feeling they wouldn't have been so exuberant if they'd had a think about the consequences first.

@Pinuporc

I honestly think that those saying public transport will be cut, and that wfh causes shoddy service are being short-sighted and/or missing the point.

Once off furlough I have been in my workplace almost full time. The commute has been a bit nicer because its quieter with less passengers. But I'm under no illusion that this will last. It's a commuter line with 4-6 trains per hour. The train company wont run 4-6 trains an hour at previously peak times, that are only a third full, because it wont be profitable. Theyll probably cut to 2 or 3 per hour and put prices up.

The train services are being paid for by government at the moment. The franchise system is halted. So, the taxpayer is paying for the train network and covering it's losses. That won't continue, it can't continue. It's temporary at the moment, so that's the justification for running lots of trains carrying nothing but fresh air. The time will come, when things start returning to normal, that the govt will have to address that and look at a sustainable long term train network. They're already thinking about developing the network away from commuting and expanding freight and leisure traffic.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I also think office workers need to tread extremely carefully..... Because if a job can be done from hme there's absolutely no reason that it cant be outsourced abroad for a quarter of the cost......a bit like the poor staff in my bank who spent years pushing the banking app onto us and are now reduced to a three day week. I've a feeling they wouldn't have been so exuberant if they'd had a think about the consequences first.

Do you honestly think that they were exuberant or was it more likely that they were highly targeted to get sign ups?

I am sure that they were not naive enough to know what the future was bringing but if your performance pay is linked to you cheerily selling something then of course you do it

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

What is it about office workers that the wfh/office balance is so important? Why are you so bloody special?

Those are two different questions. It’s important to me because of the benefits I get from it. But I don’t think I’m special, I think I’m in a role and an industry where it’s possible to wfh and I’m glad my company recognises it too and have announced hybrid working from now on.

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

What is it about office workers that the wfh/office balance is so important? Why are you so bloody special?

Not special. We just can. If you could choose to WFH would you?

I also think office workers need to tread extremely carefully..... Because if a job can be done from hme there's absolutely no reason that it cant be outsourced abroad for a quarter of the cost......

It's really not as simple as that.

All the opportunities that got them to that position have been snatched away from young people which is pretty shocking and sad actually

I fully agree, although conflating pandemic lockdowns with out-of-office working is perhaps a mistake. The young people I've met in co-work spaces came from a far broader variety of backgrounds and had a much broader world view than those in a typical office environment. Their casual habit of jumping on a train to spend a week or two in a different city, working at a hot-desk during the day and exploring in the evening was lovely to see.

Without lockdown restrictions, wfh isn't always literally at home, and surely if anyone can do this well, it's digitally-adept young people

My dh is wfh full time and is happy with the hybrid model. Essentially his boss is happy with the level of output from the team and that there has been very little absences recoded for the equivalent time they have spent in the office. Dh is happy that he has enough autonomy to be able to choose when he would like to go into the office. He hopes to do so once a week or fortnight. He had a 90 minute commute before as we cannot afford to live in Central Edinburgh so this is great for him. He does drive his own car though and is not relying on public transport.

I absolutely agree with a previous poster that public transport services will be cut if office based workers decide to work from home more often. There simply will not be the needs or demand on the service so services will reduce which will make it difficult for occasional users of public transport.

Also sandwich shops or coffee shops near big offices will either reduce hours or more likely remain closed as the footfall will be so reduced that it simply isn't viable for them to open.

We have children so he is able to drop them to school which he couldn't do them before and pick them up if I can't. We have had to adjust, he has the dining room to himself so we spend more time outdoors or upstairs so that the kids can't be heard on calls. He is an established member of the team though and doesn't miss the networking, comradeship of the office in a way that a new start would. Companies must realise that different people have different priories so in a job that can be done from home a hybrid model should be offered. If employees are taking the piss then that privilege should be revoked.

I seem to be the only one who recognises Hybrid is worst of both worlds.

It's a sure fire recipe to have inadequate, possibly insecure, equipment and set up both at home and at work. It detrimentally affects how we commute when we do get to commute (need to haul the equipment & anything else you need while at work place back and forth). As for Living at the office -- I can't fathom people who love this.