WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

If my job could be outsourced it would have been, years ago.

A lot of customer service issues are being caused by furlough, not people working from home. Employers cynically using furlough scheme even though their sector is open (and then paying their top staff bonuses).

After 18 months you can't say WFH doesn't work because it obviously does, otherwise you'd have gone bust. It's all about control.

But conversely the employers who are refusing to reopen offices or pay for their staff to use co-working spaces are taking the mick. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago from someone whose DH was in local authority job and didn't have an office to go to but they appeared to expect his wife to stay out of his way all day (although he also sounded like a twit, as he wouldn't clear out one of their two sheds to use as an office).

I think a blended approach is a positive way moving forward - each place being as flexible as they can be, depending on business need etc.

My DH is public sector middle management and travelled a lot between various offices pre Covid. They could wfh but it was occasional rather than the norm.
Now with union consultation it looks as though people will have lots of flexibility and choice about where they want to work and will be travelling far less as teams end zoom etc are working so well for big meetings.

I’m public sector and regularly wfh pre Covid with lots of travel too. They have actually shut our office now and changed our contracts to wfh with access to shared meeting rooms if needed. Still do lots of travelling to sites.
For me this works well but I do have one colleague who is really upset as she wanted to return to the office which I feel bad about.

Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

Absolutely. They usually have commutes they hate too.

And this group are over represented on MN.

Completely opposite view from me. Have absolutely hated working from home/living at work.
No delineation between work and private life, no work station, no privacy, working from laptop on bed or on knee, family have to be quiet when on Zooms, sore neck and back from working at wrong height, no personal interaction with colleagues or clients…..
Mental health shot to shit.
WFH is NOT the answer for many people

@lljkk

I seem to be the only one who recognises Hybrid is worst of both worlds.

It's a sure fire recipe to have inadequate, possibly insecure, equipment and set up both at home and at work. It detrimentally affects how we commute when we do get to commute (need to haul the equipment & anything else you need while at work place back and forth). As for Living at the office -- I can't fathom people who love this.

It likely isn't the same everywhere, but where I work, hybrid is to suit the needs of each person. So if somebody wants to work in the office full time, fine. If somebody wants to work in the office by exception, fine. Other than that we'll have a desk booking system where people can book the days in the office as required. Hours are totally flexible as long as we attend required meetings etc. However we've just had our best FY yet with all office staff working from home full time and productivity has been optimal, hence the likely reason for such a level of trust/ flexibility.

I think the world is changing and Covid has just been a kick up the arse to change it faster. Those who want to go back to things as they were seem deluded to me. Life moves on. It always has.

This argument that if you personally work in a shop and can't wfh then no-one else can is just stupid and spiteful. Why should anyone else miss out because you can't. Get a different job if you want to work that way.

In the old days people socialised and met partners in offices. Now they do on line dating
In the old days people commuted into town centres. Now maybe they'll have their lunch breaks locally and there will be a resurgence of local shopping and lunch places?

Life will change and there will be new solutions to issues eg of training. New graduates will have different expectations. They won't miss what they never had.
Companies will have to start sorting out better IT and communications because it will be normal and expected.
Houses will come with home offices as standard instead of bloody en suite bathrooms.

The world changes and people adapt. Those that don't go under.

@dementedma

Completely opposite view from me. Have absolutely hated working from home/living at work. No delineation between work and private life, no work station, no privacy, working from laptop on bed or on knee, family have to be quiet when on Zooms, sore neck and back from working at wrong height, no personal interaction with colleagues or clients….. Mental health shot to shit. WFH is NOT the answer for many people

I'm with you, I can't wait to get back into work physically!

YABU my employer has decided that we will all be wfh permanently and I hate it. I have 2 young kids and a SAHD in a small, 2 bed flat. I can't concentrate as there is too much distraction, my husband feels like he has to try and keep the kids quiet when they are at home, the baby can't nap in his cot as my desk is next to it (in our bedroom) and I end up regularly working until 10pm as despite trying to get my work done during the day I find it impossible.

So it's great for you to be able to open the door and hear the birds but some of us feel completely trapped in a tiny space all day whilst living at work. It's horrendous.

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion on a zoom meeting between a couple of colleagues about how great this was as they no longer had to do the commute. Well I'm sorry but they applied for the job here whilst living miles away I didn't apply for a job at home.

@TheKeatingFive

Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

Absolutely. They usually have commutes they hate too.

And this group are over represented on MN.

I'm 31, haven't got a 'career' as such but I've been doing what I am doing for 12 years. Partner works out of the house. Sit on the sofa with my laptop on a cushion. But I do have a nice life working from home.

And I really can't state enough how shit WFH has been for customers and clients.

I’m a client for a significant number of agencies and suppliers - ranging from professional services and creatives to tech services.

I haven’t noticed WFH having a particularly shit impact - in quite a few cases it’s been the opposite. Most I haven’t noticed a difference apart from change of interface or disruption due to the actual pandemic, not WFH.

And my team’s productivity has (measurably) increased.

All the bleating about productivity and it being crap for clients just makes me think those places need to invest more in people, systems and contract/agency management skills.

Management skills are systemically poor in this country. The pandemic has exposed those businesses that haven’t been investing in it.

Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

All the opportunities that got them to that position have been snatched away from young people which is pretty shocking and sad actually

I live in quite an affluent commuter area - lots of banking/finance people and lawyers (prob lots of MN too!) and lots wfh occassionally pre covid. Lots of Dads used to do school drop off on fridays because they were wfh.
I suspect many/most have home offices and a network of local friends who they could go for a coffee/beer with.
Contrast to my nieces and nephews in their early 20s who are desperate to get back to London, instead of wfh on laptops in various rooms of their parents house, or in the bedroom of a shared house.

It's interesting that pre covid there were studies about children and young people being too reliant on tech/screens and not learning face to face social skills....now, while tech has been a godsend during the height of the pandemic I still think there is value in real life meeting people. (I think hybrid methods of working are probably the most beneficial and I admit I'm lucky that i work with people I actually like!!)

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

If the wfh brigade get their way it won't be long before offices are scrapped . In that situation bosses will soon realise they can outsource workers and pay them much less . Be careful what you wish for .

This is such an embarrassing reply. The confidence which you talk absolute shit!" you obviously have a really poor understanding of what people actually do in their jobs. Not everyone works in admin.

For example both myself and my partner can Wfh. Both our jobs require specialist knowledge of our sectors at a national and local level. Are you just going to find that elsewhere in the world tomorrow?

My job although mainly wfh involves direct work with communities, this is easily done without going into the office.

There will be tons of jobs who work with people, where the office component can be done from home. Then the people based element delivered either in person or digitally.

As another example, my sister's job requires knowledge of property on the UK and local sites and markets.
L

It's pretty easy to see the people on this thread who are bitter about others being able to wfh. It's such a nasty attitude, like if I can't have it no one can.

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion on a zoom meeting between a couple of colleagues about how great this was as they no longer had to do the commute. Well I'm sorry but they applied for the job here whilst living miles away I didn't apply for a job at home.

I agree - so many people on here living working from home because their DH used to commute 2 hours a day. I’m sure they were happy to take the inflated salary resulting from that commute/long working hours.

Why should there be a consultation, the only reason you WFH was because the government forced that onto businesses. Businesses aren't obliged to continue that (though many are as they have realised hybrid working isn't a bad thing)

@lljkk

I seem to be the only one who recognises Hybrid is worst of both worlds.

It's a sure fire recipe to have inadequate, possibly insecure, equipment and set up both at home and at work. It detrimentally affects how we commute when we do get to commute (need to haul the equipment & anything else you need while at work place back and forth). As for Living at the office -- I can't fathom people who love this.

How so?

The outdated mode of everyone comes into the office is terrible. Look at people with long commutes, children having to be in expensive childcare, which is unaffordable for many. High commuting costs etc.

Better to have a hybrid approach - and people can chose to mix wfh or all office based. Treat people like adults!

I agree with you. I see it as masked sexism. Women have been asking for more flexibility for years and we’ve thoroughly proven that our jobs can be done more flexibly yet some employers are still resisting change. The company I work for and a lot of other companies near me are letting people work primarily from home with 1-2 days in the office per week. Ultimately they thought we’d all leave if they didn’t compromise. You could leave for an organisation that does allow wfh or do you have a union you could take it up with?

It's interesting that pre covid there were studies about children and young people being too reliant on tech/screens and not learning face to face social skills....now, while tech has been a godsend during the height of the pandemic I still think there is value in real life meeting people. (I think hybrid methods of working are probably the most beneficial and I admit I'm lucky that i work with people I actually like!!)

Absolutely. Teams and Zoom meetings work well for some situations but they’re not a replacement. And if online lessons don’t work as well as in-person schooling for education, why do we think online meetings are a complete substitute for working collaboratively in person?

I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

This.

OP, would you be as happy if you were single, living on your own in a small flat/apartment with no garden?

And personally I think many places will go hybrid - most job ads I see now are making a virtue of hybrid working. Ideally employers will hopefully be flexible enough so that those for whom WFH doesn’t work can spend all or most of their time in the office.

Our local high street has had an absolute revival during the pandemic because of all-day local custom because not everyone is piling onto a train at 7.30. A rebalancing away from top-price inner city office real estate is overdue, and will of course carry downsides but will create opportunities elsewhere that aren’t predicated on being able to see three branches of Pret from your office window.

I’m also amazed that offices are still closed and people are still working from home tbh.

@80caloriesofbiscuitplease

A hybrid approach is all I'm asking for. A rota system with 50% in and 50% at home.

So what did your employer say when you put in your statutory application for flexible working?

I’m also amazed that offices are still closed and people are still working from home tbh.

Why?

It's a sure fire recipe to have inadequate, possibly insecure, equipment and set up both at home and at work. It detrimentally affects how we commute when we do get to commute (need to haul the equipment & anything else you need while at work place back and forth).

It's very job dependent. DH has an exact replica of his work station at home so no need to lug anything. Everything is very secure with a key needed to access everything. One screen was playing up & another one was couriered over in a hour.

I’m also amazed that offices are still closed and people are still working from home tbh.

We still aren’t allowed back because (public sector) employer is being over cautious and waiting for all the social distancing restrictions to be lifted. I’ve only been there in person twice since March 2020.

Even though sickness for stress and depression has increased; people have said they want to come back and productivity is down they’re sticking with having it completely closed with very few exceptions until after whatever date the restrictions are removed.

@TheKeatingFive

Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling that all these people saying that wfh is the future are older, established in their career, have may even met their partner and some of their friendship group at work, have plenty of space to separate work from home and are generally living quite a nice life

Absolutely. They usually have commutes they hate too.

And this group are over represented on MN.

I love working from home and I'm in the group you talk about.

I think WFH long term would be AWFUL for my kids when they are starting their careers.