WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@lljkk

Hotdesking, ah yes, that lovely

Crap

you can tell when a hot desker arrives at the office by the size of their bags

Squeezed together crumby Hell

Spreads flu?

Backache

Tips how to be presentable if Active Travel

I have zero desire to go into the office. So it won't affect me in the slightest

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Sorry should have said this was a response to your post:

Perhaps you didn't mean it like that but that's quite a harsh response. A friend of mine had a stillbirth having contracted Covid. Now of course she could have contracted it anywhere (though she did very little bar commute and go to the office) - and it might have happened any way - but it is still devastating. There is a massive study showing that Covid may increase the risk of still birth

That also isn't really what employment law says (I should know!).
Employers have a duty to protect pregnant staff ie by not giving them heavy boxes to carry. We already know Covid presents a heightened risk to pregnant women - despite the government advice initially saying the opposite.

Also, yes of course pregnant women can be vaccinated, but a lot of us are being made to go back to work before we've received a second dose. I am too young to qualify for a second until late August - and I'm not even a young mother. Most pregnant women will fall into that category.

When you took the no. You were to work on an office. Just because you like it better at home doesn’t mean it’s an automatic right. Your employer pays for massive offices or the public do so to not use them is so wasteful. We cannot have a society that simply works from home. However appealing it is.

We cannot have a society that simply works from home

Lucky absolutely no one on this thread is calling for that then, isn't it?

@Bryonyshcmyony

Yes, I've been in contact with both my insurance company and water company and both have a long message about people working from home and how the wait therefore might be longer - err why? If wfh is so good why is the customer impacted?

Because they are lying - they have staff on furlough and they don't want to admit it, so they're blaming WFH for the adverse impacts.

Hopefully now that the furlough system is being wound down, those businesses abusing it will get their staff back into work.

It's perfectly possible to WFH and take calls. Personally I don't think people should just call people out the blue anyway, you should arrange a convenient time to call, otherwise you are just playing phone tag all day. If it's a call centre, there are people there, or they have the tech at home, so no idea why they are not picking up the phone. Maybe they have a lot of people off isolating or ill?

As for insurers, I thought I was going to have a long painful telephone call to add my son to my car insurance when he passed his test but they had put the functionality on their website which meant I could do it really easily and the paperwork came through 4 days later (so obviously someone was in the fulfilment centre). Ditto driving licence which came 4 days after he passed his test.

Re commuting costs, for some reason the cost of peak time train travel far exceeds that of the rest of Europe, always has, and is getting worse. If people like sally want the trains to be there for their museum trips etc perhaps they should to general taxation, rather than the poor commuter, to fund it.

What a joke that we now find that some people even think we should be obliged to make these journeys, for their benefit.

@Figmentofmyimagination

Re commuting costs, for some reason the cost of peak time train travel far exceeds that of the rest of Europe, always has, and is getting worse. If people like sally want the trains to be there for their museum trips etc perhaps they should to general taxation, rather than the poor commuter, to fund it.

What a joke that we now find that some people even think we should be obliged to make these journeys, for their benefit.

I would hazard a guess the same people don’t think we should abolish landlords or inheritance for the benefit of the younger generation, who could do with wealth being distributed more fairly

We cannot have a society that simply works from home

I'd say we can't have a society where millions of people commute a great distance to work five days a week. The way people were working prior to the pandemic was unsustainable, in terms of the environment, economy and health of the nation.

This is a chance for a reset and hybrid working, and fewer people travelling massive distances every morning is a much healthier way to run a society.

What did everyone do before lockdown?
We were forced to wfh to which some objected at first.
Now it is time to go back in to the office, get on with it

@sue69m

What did everyone do before lockdown? We were forced to wfh to which some objected at first. Now it is time to go back in to the office, get on with it

Nope. I'm quite ok WFH thanks.

@HarebrightCedarmoon

We cannot have a society that simply works from home

I'd say we can't have a society where millions of people commute a great distance to work five days a week. The way people were working prior to the pandemic was unsustainable, in terms of the environment, economy and health of the nation.

This is a chance for a reset and hybrid working, and fewer people travelling massive distances every morning is a much healthier way to run a society.

Well said.

Working from home does seem to spark bitterness in others. They should aim for work from home jobs too if they care that much - the good news is that they are going to be MUCH more common.

Presumably for some of those WFH will be called into the office for a chat, possibly along the lines of, if we let you work from home there will be significant savings for you and accordingly we made need to review what we pay you. Who knows a 10-30% cut ?

This will blow your mind but pre covid plenty of people on 6 figure salaries could work remotely.

@HarebrightCedarmoon

We cannot have a society that simply works from home

I'd say we can't have a society where millions of people commute a great distance to work five days a week. The way people were working prior to the pandemic was unsustainable, in terms of the environment, economy and health of the nation.

This is a chance for a reset and hybrid working, and fewer people travelling massive distances every morning is a much healthier way to run a society.

It appears some people think office workers have the responsibility to carry the whole economy. Regardless of the implications to their own health, the impact in their kids, impact in the environment.

It funny because people on sahm vs working mum threads always say sahm are contributing to the economy because they often are out spending money during the day in their local community and raising the next generation. But working people working flexibly and spending money locally are selfish and ruining the country. Even though many are raising the next generation as well.

I have been a sahp and have nothing against it. But why are they heroes for staying at home and not thinking about the economy. But people working at home are the villains?

Personally I don't think people should just call people out the blue anyway, you should arrange a convenient time to call

I’ve seen that before on MN. How dare colleagues or customers/suppliers dare getting in touch with you!!
I mean serioulsy, if , as customer you have a question, they should be making an appointment first!

It seems HMRC has taken that on board. Its impossible to talk to anyone Nowadays (because yes wfh, self isolating - which really shouldn’t have any impact if they are indeed working from home - etc…). And you finally talk to someone they often don’t have the answer…..

@LST

That’s great.

Perfect if your employer wants it to continue.
Less so if not!

My husband's company have approved a hybrid model moving forward. Productivity and communication have improved since WFH started but they are an international company. I have been looking for a new role and many are using the 40% office based as an incentive.

Surely only certain companies can measure productivity during the pandemic and actually regard it as reflective of normal times?

For most the pandemic was an artificial time for their business, either positive or negative and so measuring productivity won’t be reflective going forward.

If I was an employer I’d say all continue wfh unless you want to return but we will reevaluate in one year time when we have accurate productivity data

@Scaredycat87

Surely only certain companies can measure productivity during the pandemic and actually regard it as reflective of normal times?

For most the pandemic was an artificial time for their business, either positive or negative and so measuring productivity won’t be reflective going forward.

If I was an employer I’d say all continue wfh unless you want to return but we will reevaluate in one year time when we have accurate productivity data

Plus, people’s performance during the last year won’t necessarily be indicative of their actual wfh ability. If you’ve had primary school kids home for long stretches due to school closures, holiday club closures, wrap around care reduced, kids off isolating etc, that will have had an impact that won’t exist forever.
My company completely redid the annual appraisal system this year to take all of this into account, because they recognised that some people would be penalised because their work has been affected by, for example, having three kids in primary school.

@NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost

Personally I don't think people should just call people out the blue anyway, you should arrange a convenient time to call

I’ve seen that before on MN. How dare colleagues or customers/suppliers dare getting in touch with you!!
I mean serioulsy, if , as customer you have a question, they should be making an appointment first!

It seems HMRC has taken that on board. Its impossible to talk to anyone Nowadays (because yes wfh, self isolating - which really shouldn’t have any impact if they are indeed working from home - etc…). And you finally talk to someone they often don’t have the answer…..

Hmrc is horrific to deal with right now. I dread when I need to Contact them as that's a huge chunk of my day just to have a 5 minute conversation and that is, as you say, if you get someone who can/will deal with your query.

My favourite call with them recently (and thankfully it seems to have been removed from the pre recorded message) is being told to ask how long the call handler had until their next break to determine whether, after being on hold for 50 minutes, they would have time to deal with your query before their next break.

However I do think the pandemic has highlighted a very broken system within Hmrc and still having staff at home doesn't help although it's not the whole reason for the issues.

HMRC have always been horrible to deal with. No one ever knows what they are doing and for the greatest chunk of the time, they are wrong and YOU have to explain to THEM why they are wrong and then it is all fine.

Apply to WFH under the flexible working pattern provided under section 80F of the employment rights act 1996. Good luck

I have to say I have called hmrc a few times this year and last year and year before. They have always been appalling.

I, genuinely, haven't experienced it being even worse during the pandemic.

Fill this thread! Fill this thread! :D

@Mayaspecialist

I have to say I have called hmrc a few times this year and last year and year before. They have always been appalling.

I, genuinely, haven't experienced it being even worse during the pandemic.

It's never been great but it has hit much worse since the pandemic.

So much do that the governing bodies fit accountancy and tax are trying to take action and are highlighting the issues.

I call them several times per week for work, and pre pandemic, generally could speak to someone within 15 minutes, often much quicker. Now it's a minimum of 40 minutes hold before the call is answered. They also are taking approx 6 months to repay any tax refunds to companies, many of who desperately need the money for cash flow.