WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@MrsDThomas

I work in local government and in my room, out of 7, 5 are in the office (because we cannot work from home) and one is WFH as she can. She is laptop based. Then there is the one who has the cheek to refuse to come in. Said no to our lovely line manager, no to his manager too. She says she is scared and feels uncomfortable being there with us. We are 2 meters apart, hand sanitizers all around, wear masks to visit the loo and kitchen. All very safe. Yet she is happy to visit shopping centres, restaurants and even have a few weekends away! She is older (no kids, no dependants, wont be long until she retires so no need to be at home.) she is taking the absolute piss.

If you can WFH i have no issues. Is great for those with young kids etc. But this person cannot WFH. With the nature of the work, we have to produce work for her to enable her to stay home which is again the grain.

There are many who are taking the piss, but how can you really force someone back in?

This is just ridiculous.

I think WFH is a great thing for those who can do it and when it does work. But if you have a job which really can't be based at home and the person is insisting on staying at home, then longer term I think you have to look at hiring someone else and supporting the current employee to move into something more suitable.

She basically isn't doing the job. It's like having a computer-based job and saying she won't use a computer because she's worried about radiation or something. If she keeps up this stance then he's not suitable for the position so eventually that has to lead to dismissal/ replacement.

Not RFT but surely the simple answer is make a flexible working request - if home working has been working in your role then they can't refuse a request for a couple of days home working.

I do think people forget that office working wasn't entirely productive either. Lots of people in offices slacked off and spent time doing anything else, other than their job
^This

I found working in an open plan office really distracting at times with little space or consideration for when people needed to concentrate.

Many offices are designed to keep costs down, ie open plan is cheaper as you need less floor space. They’re not designed to maximise productivity at all, whatever those wanky executives tell you.

I remember one office I worked in was trying to squeeze 3 people to 2 desks. Fucking ridiculous. All to save money. No thought that we may need space and peace to get work done!

My employer is doing a hybrid of 2 in office, 3 at home per week. It's a good balance IMHO, as anyone who wants to be in the office full time has the option to be. As soon as the office partially opened in September 2020, we've had a small core of people who couldn't cope being at home full time, and they've flourished being in the office together even with SD in place.

DH's employer is doing the same thing and it's great having time in the day together S well as no commute meaning hours more family time again. I don't believe the hype about middle management being given to overseas workers, as any managers who implemented that, could easily be replaced themselves by that way of thinking.

Maybe being at home, people will eat less convenience food & takeaways, which is better for national obesity rates. We have FAR too many food outlets in every city/town.

Car emissions should reduce with hybrid WFH and people should have more disposable income from not commuting/buying lunches/buying work clothes etc

Maybe if public transport can improve the environment for its customers, some might be more enthusiastic about going to the office. Trains especially treat their customers like cattle, theyre often late, no room for sitting down during rush hours, are dirty and expensive. Now they’re bleating about suffering financially through lack of travellers. They’ve treated the public like cash cows for too long, and should use this opportunity to entice people by improving the service they offer.

For many jobs, work is a thing you do not a place you go. The company I work for has adopted a 'work where you want, when you want' policy, and I think about 70% have chosen a hybrid approach where come September they'll be in the office for 2-3 days a week for collaboration and meetings etc but home the rest of the time. Our city centre offices have a generally younger demographic and will likely be more or less full as that group are more keen to socialise and far less likely to have suitable home office space.

Business has been brisk for us during the pandemic and most of our clients are still partly home based anyway so it's more or less an expectation.

I find that a lot of those crowing for a full return to the office are quite old school “presenteesim” types who measure success by the hours spent at the desk. Fuck that.

Most people I know who are 'crowing for a full return to the office' are people who feel like they are living at work rather than working from home.

Sorry OP I'm sure we'd all like a job where we can hear the birds and stroke the cat, but as you said it has made some people less productive.
I read threads on here at the very beginning and it was very obvious many people wfh were taking the piss.
From a customer perspective it's been crap.

@LadyWithLapdog

You don’t need to be in the office to get a promotion, unless you plan to sleep with the boss or something. Promotions are based on work, aren’t they?

That should be true. But it isn't. There are studies showing that employees working from home are less likely to get promoted. Hopefully the pandemic will help all of us develop a new way forward, with less emphasis on 'being seen' and more flexibility and trust all round. Part home working and part office working is the way forward for many jobs

I’m going to wfh full time, and am happy in doing so. I think if I was 20 years younger I might think differently, and want the social aspect of working in the office. But I’ve been there, done that, and am tired of office politics. I’m happier and more productive wfh.

I dont think office workers are on some higher tier that means they need more protection than the millions of cleaners etc.

So yabu, and you'll be fine. We have to get back to normal at some point whether you want to listen to the birds or not........ We also need to bring money into the high street. Which has been decimated in my area from losing passing trade from people going into work. So many jobs have been lost and hours slashed it's awful.

@nokidshere

I find that a lot of those crowing for a full return to the office are quite old school “presenteesim” types who measure success by the hours spent at the desk. Fuck that.

Most people I know who are 'crowing for a full return to the office' are people who feel like they are living at work rather than working from home.

I feel that way, but don’t want a full return to the office.

I think a balance of wfh/office is important and I trust my team to be able to manage that balance. Sadly the older school more senior management don’t. (I’m new to this organisation and find it a strange attitude to have - but then again these senior managers have huge offices to themselves with slave and peace and quiet).

*space not slave.

@SofiaMichelle

Just get your arse back to the office.

Yes, let’s all be good little serfs, move along, nothing to see here.

@nokidshere I don't want my soon to be working young adults on a laptop in their bedrooms. I want them out and about meeting varied and interesting people, not just seeing their immediate managers on a once a day zoom call.

I fully agree. Continued WFH will screw the career prospects of our youngsters. How can they "learn on the job" when they have to continually phone/skype other staff members for advice - the other staff will soon get fed up of the constant stream of queries. My son is trying to sort out his "year in industry" part of his degree. Barely any firms are offering placement year jobs, the reason given being because they don't know if they'll have enough staff in the workplace to provide the training/mentoring required. In my own profession, accountancy, I've been looking at local accountancy firm websites who usually offer trainee/apprentice positions every Autumn - I've found one job on offer when usually there are dozens. Trainees/apprentices learn on the job from people around them, lots of that is informal and simply from observation/listening to what others are doing. All that's gone if you WFH.

My son has already had a year of being trapped in his tiny Uni flat doing literally everything online (he's had no face to face teaching at all all year - the staff aren't even on campus!). He's already fed up of not meeting people and doing everything online. There's no way on Earth he'd willingly accept a job on that same basis.

Our young adults are being treated terribly and if things don't change this Summer, there'll be long term implications for all of us.

Your employer will lose employees, and find it hard to recruit from a wide pool of talent, as they will only find people who want full time office work
Really? Come September, when furlough ends, i think we will see mass unemployment

@LadyWithLapdog

You don’t need to be in the office to get a promotion, unless you plan to sleep with the boss or something. Promotions are based on work, aren’t they?

The issue is about connexion, talking face to face to people and learning about opportunities that you otherwise wouldn’t know. Talking to your boss about the fact you know about software AB so you can take on this new project when they didnt know about it. Basically it’s about networking Which doesn’t happen when you only ever talk about work with a select few.

(Lots of studies around that have been done pre covid - not as simple as you make it out)

I wish employers would consider at least some hybrid wfh for the sake of the environment if nothing else

We are all supposed to be concerned about global warming and yet they want all that unnecessary commuting to come right back. Not to mention the international flights that all these oh so important people needed to take all the time so they can wine and dine other oh so important people. Can the world really justify the return of all this when we can very effectively communicate with people in other countries electronically? I for one do not bemoan the loss of travelling to meetings in the main. Stress of traffic jams, parking, finding the place etc etc. It's so much more efficient to meet electronically and saves my employer time and expenses money as well hassle for me so win win.

It seems to me that even if Covid ways of working were 'temporary' and thrust upon them then any forward thinking progressive employer would look at what they can learn from it rather than just go back to the old model with no thought and assume it's automatically better. It doesn't seem the mark of an excellent business to not learn any lessons from this. Surely they will get left behind when the rest of the world moves on and innovates. They should at least show staff their analysis of the reasons and communicate better with them.

YANBU.

My experience is that many private sector employers are moving to a hybrid model, recognising that the vast majority of employees (whose role allows it!) are just as productive at home and that for all the reasons you mention may well prefer it. The model then allows for meetings and collaborative work in offices but the usual 9-5 at home.

Suspect the public sector is a) more conservative; b) more used to operating in a paternalistic mindset (we can't trust the children at home alone!); and c) is more motivated to start pumping money back from into towns and cities by having commuters, people buying lunch and coffees and frequenting shops and restaurants during or after the working day.

but then again these senior managers have huge offices to themselves with slave and peace and quiet).

You mean like the people who have home offices or space to work at home do? Not the ones who are in small homes, with no space, and other family members affected?

What is it about office workers that the wfh/office balance is so important?
Why are you so bloody special?

I'm doing a mix atm with the view to return to the office full time soon. I'm looking forward to it, but I get many others will be anxious. However those saying vote with your feet, make sure you have another job to go to first. And don't think you're irreplaceable to your company, because there are many people job hunting at the moment. It may not be hard to find someone who wants a job, even if it means office working full time.
I've always looked at wfh as a temporary measure, and at least I've saved over a years worth of commute. That's a bonus in my eyes, my job was given to me as full time office work, I'm not expecting them to change it.

What these threads overlook is that many people already had the option of wfh before the pandemic. DH always did 1-2 days at home. Sq footage office space in the city of London was decreasing before the pandemic.

I do take the point that many businesses will be impacted by more wfh & it's been too quick for them to adapt. I also think that some people won't go bad to the same spending habits, I always bought lunch but have been back hybrid since Jan & most days make it at home.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I dont think office workers are on some higher tier that means they need more protection than the millions of cleaners etc.

So yabu, and you'll be fine. We have to get back to normal at some point whether you want to listen to the birds or not........ We also need to bring money into the high street. Which has been decimated in my area from losing passing trade from people going into work. So many jobs have been lost and hours slashed it's awful.

I agree. Another point is that if there are fewer people commuting, then there'll be fewer trains/buses as the supply will fall to meet demand. That means that the commute for people who just want to call into the office occasionally for meetings, or to work a few days per week will be worse for them, either due to fewer trains/buses, shorter trains, longer journeys as fewer trains make more stops, etc. People are deluded if they think the public transport will remain at levels to cater for huge (normal) numbers of commuters when far fewer people actually travel daily. There are consequences. WFH advocates need to be careful what you wish for.

I don't think middle management would be outsourced. If any job is in danger of that, we can already see the evidence. Call centres, for instance. Some software jobs. In our industry we've noticed a trend for quietly replacing employees who leave with people based in developing countries. That was happening before the pandemic.