WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@Redwinestillfine

No reason you can't work from home on the phones. The technology is there ( and there shouldn't be any family noises in the background - no one is advocating trying to work with kids in the house. They will be at school/ nursery/ other childcare on working days). It's presenteeism and it stinks.

I have a team member whose wife is a sahm. His small children are around and given that the wfh model has been imposed by the company i can’t really tell him to lock them out of the room or start paying for childcare.

My point wasn’t about whether I care or you care or what our respective routines are. It was about your comment that people who want to wfh are selfish. I am genuinely interested to hear how far you and others think we should go to support businesses and public transport if purchasing their services isn’t strictly necessary.

I don’t understand your last sentence. If it’s about the economy, it goes to the point above. Or is it about customer service again? As has been mentioned dozens of times in this thread, most office workers are not working in customer service.

That was to Salty btw.

I’m struggling with this notion that people in occupations that have traditionally worked in offices because it was the only way most could work until relatively recently are morally obliged to continue even it’s entirely feasible not to. It’s absurd. Are those occupations who have generally worked from home exempt from judgement? Artists, childminders, other self-employed homeworkers? If not, why not?

Similar situation here - i told them if they didn’t offer some home working - i’d resign or retire - They told me they would think about it - i got another job offer within a week - was considering the offer - the current employer told me that they wanted us all back at office - i resigned an hour later. They offered me wfh.

Ultimately i decided to retire, but will do odd projects here but not for the old employer, who are pestering me now to consult.

We have been asked to go back from September properly. A hybrid approach was suggested but at the discretion of your manager. I can feel the unfairness already. My boss is pretty much a person who wants us present!

In my office of 1500, only 150 or less of us have returned on a volunteer basis a few days a week. Nice to see everyone but I end up doing 30% more because those who don’t come in use me to do their leg work. Example : If you are in, please can you print this document and Take to the mail room or can I ask you to speak to X snd X and get a wet signature.. my office days are the only days in the week that I end up with a back log because I am picking up the slack! Then I have to make it up on my WFH days work longer hours..I am struggling to see how this approach will work long term.

I feel we do have to get back to normal even though I love being home with the dog! Our pensions are tied up in big consortiums that own corporate buildings etc. And people are suffering, financially and with their mental health. The guy I get my coffee from in the mornings told me he spent the entire lockdown in his room -23 hours.. for months. The house share he is in doesn’t have a living room and one of his flatmates set up his work station in the kitchen which meant none of the other housemates could use that space! It’s been tough for all us but the show must go on! Having said that - we are no near over this. Just been informed there was an outbreak in the office and now have to isolate as I was in close contact with 2 individuals who tested positive (despite us all following the protocols in place.) So a pregnant lady, one person who is in the shielding category, two anti Vaxers, and one person who leaves this Friday to the US for the summer have now been exposed and have to isolate…caution should still be the order of day…

home working only to be used in emergencies.

This was the bit that annoyed most in the OP's employer's attitude. I can only think of a very limited number of "emergencies" that WFH would help with, e.g. needing to let in trades for urgent repairs.

Working from home means working. Most emergencies would need you to actually spend time dealing with them, in which case you need some sort of emergency leave, not just to be somewhere else, but still expected to be working.

Presumably for some of those WFH will be called into the office for a chat, possibly along the lines of, if we let you work from home there will be significant savings for you and accordingly we made need to review what we pay you. Who knows a 10-30% cut ?

YDBear RTFT. Your incorrect and almost-xenophobic comment about off-shoring was specifically and eloquently addressed by DoucheBaguette almost two hours before you posted.

@tryinghardnottocry

Presumably for some of those WFH will be called into the office for a chat, possibly along the lines of, if we let you work from home there will be significant savings for you and accordingly we made need to review what we pay you. Who knows a 10-30% cut ?

But I’m not paid based on my outgoings, I’m paid based on the value of my work to the company. Why would any savings on my part affect my pay?

And even if it did, you’re assuming significant savings for everyone working from home. Wfh saves me £16 a week bus fare, and as DH used to walk to the office it saves him nothing. It saves his company though, they’ve been looking to move to new office space for 3 years but haven’t found anywhere suitable. Now they’ve said he can work from home indefinitely (along with other office staff) they can look for smaller office space. Should those “significant savings” mean they need to review his pay accordingly and up it?

Being fair, you applied for a job working that wasn't wfh, so if you prefer to wfh, which is fine, then your preference has shifted but not necessarily your employers preference.
If it no longer suits and there is no discussion to be had, then you are at liberty to look for another job.

@tryinghardnottocry

Presumably for some of those WFH will be called into the office for a chat, possibly along the lines of, if we let you work from home there will be significant savings for you and accordingly we made need to review what we pay you. Who knows a 10-30% cut ?

You wage isn't dependent on your outgoings.

If it was all the low paid staff that lived in expensive areas, because there's no other choice would get paid a lot more.

Before the pandemic, if people put in a flexible work request, had is accepted but worked the same amount of hours, do you think they have to take a pay cut?

People really are grasping at straws to try and prove people who want flexible working, shouldn't ask for it. And the reasons are getting ridiculous.

I’m so glad I’m not WFH and unless you live in a huge house with ample room to shut away the office, I really don’t understand the attraction.

My NDN needs to go back to the office, her ‘office’ is set up in her bedroom, so she sits facing out. She’s like a Meercat, head bobs up and looks out everytime there’s activity in the street.

I’m so pleased to be back in the office!

@tryinghardnottocry on the flip side, wfh saves the employer rental costs and they can potentially release many of their buildings for cash, they may choose to offer a payment to staff to offset additional costs they incur by permanently wfh (as my employer has suggested)

All the people I know who WFH (which isn't many tbf) are either only returning to the office part time as in 1-2 days a week or in the case of my BIL will not return at all as his company have sold the building and everyone is WFH permanently.

Should be grateful they still have a job.
The ultimate in licking the capitalist boot on your neck.

I’m so glad I’m not WFH and unless you live in a huge house with ample room to shut away the office, I really don’t understand the attraction
Our house isn’t huge and I’m working in the kitchen, but for me it’s: no commute to juggle with the nursery run, so instead of a stressful morning, DD gets more time at home and we can amble our way in. Enjoy my neighbourhood at lunchtime or get house chores done at lunch so weekends are free. Clock off and be around for bedtime. Cutting my and DP’s commute shortens DD’s nursery day immensely and is better for all of us. WFH has its negatives – I hate having to clean up breakfast to create my “office”, and vice versa, but the benefits far outweigh them.

Passthecake30 - point taken, but the employer is in the stronger bargaining position

Somebody working in a middle management role in the City of London on say £75k a year would be hardly any worse off if their salary was cut by £20k

£20k after tax and NIC = £11k then less travelling costs and the inefficient expenditure of being in London, food, drinks, clothes for work etc -

@tryinghardnottocry

Passthecake30 - point taken, but the employer is in the stronger bargaining position

Somebody working in a middle management role in the City of London on say £75k a year would be hardly any worse off if their salary was cut by £20k

£20k after tax and NIC = £11k then less travelling costs and the inefficient expenditure of being in London, food, drinks, clothes for work etc -

And that has nothing to do the wage you are paid.

Doesn't matter how much you are saving. Your outgoings do not dictate your wage.

@AtomicBronde

I’m so glad I’m not WFH and unless you live in a huge house with ample room to shut away the office, I really don’t understand the attraction.

My NDN needs to go back to the office, her ‘office’ is set up in her bedroom, so she sits facing out. She’s like a Meercat, head bobs up and looks out everytime there’s activity in the street.

I’m so pleased to be back in the office!

I don't drive and I have a disability. WFH has literally changed my life. I'd be gutted going back knowing how good my life over the past 18 months has been

@DameAlyson

there shouldn't be any family noises in the background - no one is advocating trying to work with kids in the house. They will be at school/ nursery/ other childcare on working days).

What about teenage children? What do you do with them after school and in the holidays?

Why how much noise does a teenager make when you ask them not to because you're working. My 7 and 9 year old manage it before and after school.

And how depressing that must be for kids having to tip toe round their house and be quiet. Bad enough for a couple of hours after school but for the holidays too

I’m sure they coped when it was enforced during lockdown but if this is going to be full time then what a depressing memory that will be of their childhoods. Not being able to relax in their own home

And the “but I pay the mortgage” comments in 3,2,1……

From an employers perspective, they are paying rents on properties and workspace that theire employees are not using, many will be tied into leases that cant just be cancelled.
Many younger employees need to work in an office environment in order to network as part of their career progression.
Many younger employees have their social lives with office colleagues and in the gyms and clubs where their offices are.
Its fine if you're in a family unit or hve reached the pinnacle of your career - but many thousands of workers haven't.

It would have been quite difficult for my teenagers to not be noisy during the school holidays. Having mates round, and playing music, just being teenagers really.
I could have asked them not to but that's a bit unreasonable for 6 weeks.

I haven't got a horse in this race (adult DC and job not possible from home) but can see how daily life could be disruptive and noisy if I had to and it would affect the family dynamic.

And how depressing that must be for kids having to tip toe round their house and be quiet

That's how I feel. I suppose they should just go round to someone else's house? Or just out, anywhere.

Totally agree with you. Missed opportunity for some changes to life. I know not everyone can wfh but office life is so much harder than people think who don't work in offices. It can be a quite oppressive and bullying culture. I have suffered from poor mental health since I was young. No reason, it's just the way I am and I struggle with social issues sometimes. I feel like a new person after 25 years in the office. No more bitching, interruptions, bullshit, having to listen to other people's conversations because they don't give a shit that they may be disturbing you whilst standing 1 metre away from you shouting down their phone! And the new 'micro-managing' regime ..don't get me started! It may be different for younger people just starting out working life or people who can't have a separate living/office space at home but I cannot see myself going back more than one day a week. I have worked harder, longer and I am way more motivated because I'm not feeling depressed with my surroundings while being at home. Also not missing 3-hour daily commute! Just before lockdown I had taken the decision to have Fridays off and wfh one day a week (after 25 years of same office 8-5, 5 days a week) now even 3 days in office feels too much! These are just my feelings.. I know everyone is different but that's the opportunity we have here after a world wide life changing event.. take the good and run with it, don't go back to same old miserable lives.

At the risk of just repeating the same songs others have played already - that's the point of a flexible approach that tries to find a solution that works better for everyone.

WFH has been part of my career for fifteen years or more (more at some points, less at others but always a factor). In that time I've still been mentored and mentored; I've gone into the office more when my home setup wasn't great for home working and worked from home more when it has been. In all that time, the option to wfh has not killed off office culture, despite it being an option open to everyone in the company.

In fact, I'd argue heartily that in my early career it enhanced it. As a woman who sometimes felt too nevous to speak up, the changing dynamic of the office space (depending on which mix of people came in that day) meant the conversations were not always dominated by the same over-confident and talky people. It brought chances for deeper working relationships to grow with people I might not have spoken much to, allowing me to benefit from their wisdom as well as the wisdom of the noisier folks.

I agree with pp saying this is not a new way of working. Some businesses and industries have been doing this for years now. It might be new to some businesses right now - and both they and their employees may be struggling with the rapid change, but there is an equilibrium to be found that does not force people to work ways they don't want to and still ensures they get a good level of mentoring and support.