WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@madamovaries

I totally agree - what a shame employers aren't thinking that they can learn from this period and implement more flexible working where possible. Clearly it will benefit some staff hugely; I know it's not for everyone, though.

One thing I've been wondering is what will happen with pregnant women. A recent, massive study showed that there appears to be a heightened risk of still birth among women who've had Covid while pregnant. Are we just supposed to go back to work and risk catching it? What if the employer puts us at risk in some way; wouldn't they be liable?

Pregnant women can be vaccinated. There's a risk of catching all sorts of things when pregnant. It's not an employer's remit to make them a priority and they are not bloody liable if you pick up a virus . You could pick up viruses from anywhere. They have to take appropriate safety measures in accordance with the law and make appropriate adjustments but viruses that live in the air are just that, you pick them up by breathing.

@threatmatrix

It’s your job, they want you back if you don’t like it leave. I’m sick of this whinging.

Me too fed up with hearing about it 😴 Should be grateful they still have a job.

You mean by the ‘old’ way a year ago? Aren’t you lucky to have been able to tet paid staying at home.

@threatmatrix yeah it's been great. I loved being expected to minute rand complex meetings on people leaving the prison system and reintegrating into society whilst also homeschooling a six year old and looking after a toddler whilst my husband worked 60 hour weeks in food retail and being treated like shit by members of the general public who had to shop local due to Ocado having a four week wait for home delivery.

[quote 80caloriesofbiscuitplease]@threatmatrix yeah it's been great. I loved being expected to minute rand complex meetings on people leaving the prison system and reintegrating into society whilst also homeschooling a six year old and looking after a toddler whilst my husband worked 60 hour weeks in food retail and being treated like shit by members of the general public who had to shop local due to Ocado having a four week wait for home delivery.[/quote]
Yet you were doing that in the office before the pandemic. Nothing's changed. It was a temporary move. If you want it to be perm, find another job! Request flexible working and if they turn you down you find another job.

@Tealightsandd

And with regards suitable environment suitable for WFH. That most definitely is a privilege available only to a minority.

Vast numbers of people - potentially talented workers - will be excluded from opportunities if WFH stays.

Agree to with a PP. How shit for young people. Starting out in the world of work...stuck all day in their childhood bedroom or a crappy room in a houseshare.

You do realise we don't all live in London.

Houses are still cheap in some places. So my house was 85k, 3 years ago. I don't know anyone, who lives in Multiple occupancy. Again, that doesn't impact everyone. I have someone who works in admin, who bought a house alone at 22, because there were still cheap.

And besides which, if you want to work for us and in the office, you can. You just don't have to. And because we don't have to the, ones that are in get to meet loads of different people every week rather than the same 5 that share the room everyday.

Do you think non of us are young, or have young people working for us. The young people are enjoying the extra time they are getting. A run a lunch time, can meet their partner or friends for dinner mid week. Or have friends over. Or visit friends and family. Which they couldn't fit in mid week before because of the commute.

And yes, not everyone will be able to. Not everyone lives somewhere cheap or has the room or wants to. That's why it's called flexible.

But since when have people only been able to have perks or working conditions if everyone else can't have it?

So some of us are expected to waste 5-10 hours a week to keep transport workers in a job and polluting our air?

As others have said, the money will still be spent but on different things - more lunches on local high streets, more home cleaners, for example.

This is so dreadfully self centred.

Everyone will be moaning in a few years time that the pensions are crap because it was invested in office space.

@osbertthesyrianhamster I love my job. I don't love doing it with small children around. In fact I was go down far as to say I hated it. I

@JonSnowIsALoser

You're right OP. What's annoying and upsetting is the cynicism of employers, who expect staff to be flexible and accommodating and keep the business running by working from home when it suits the company, but not returning the favour when the employees themselves need support and flexibility. Everything sucks these days.

If employees hadn't kept businesses running, they'd have been out of their jobs.

"So some of us are expected to waste 5-10 hours a week to keep transport workers in a job and polluting our air?
and this is the crux of the selfishness apparent on this thread.

You're all right jack - so not concerned about anybody else.
If transport services are cut - what about those who cannot afford to drive or the fact that people now have to drive everywhere and will pollute the air somewhere even if not on your commute route."

So people who stop using transport and services get cut for others are the height of selfishness? what about the operators that provide a shit service in the first place.
Using your logic homebuyers are selfish for pushing prices up, landlords too, people who holiday in the UK are making it more in demand etc.

Honestly it's stupid to expect someone to commute for others. I started walking to work last year instead of my bus ride, I presume that was selfish too!

[quote 80caloriesofbiscuitplease]@osbertthesyrianhamster I love my job. I don't love doing it with small children around. In fact I was go down far as to say I hated it. I[/quote]
But the wfh was never meant to be permanent. It was because of the pandemic. You're the one wanting the terms to change. They won't. You can put in a request for flexible working and if it's declined that's that.

WFH is nothing new. I worked for a company in which EVERYONE wfh on a Friday, some people up to 3 days or even fully remotely. I myself used to wfh two days a week. Virtual PAs are not new and have been around for ages. Many other people have been wfh in some capacity.

People need to stop being so resistant to change, change happens whether or not we like it and we just need to move forward and take the positives from it. Businesses go under every day for one reason or another, and unfortunately many didn't survive COVID. If it wasn't COVID it might be something else, like not being "current". Look at all the businesses that have boomed during COVID. You can buy subscription boxes and hampers for just about everything going nowadays. Restaurants have adapted... New work will pop up as a result of this. Businesses have to evolve - that is the nature of business.

I love the fact that we are making the most of technology and showing more trust in employees to get their jobs done. I do enjoy being in the office too, but honestly I am much less stressed at home. So many people with health issues will have really benefited from this arrangement.

Personally, I have loved WFH in my latest role. A very well organised company, amazing colleagues and manager and I have been able to excel without the distractions and worries about my health - I have severe IBS and this has been a Godsend to me and other people I know!

My last job I WFH and supported another team alongside my main role, the manager turned out to be an absolute micromanager nightmare, who would call me every half an hour and send myriad emails. I had to resign in the end as I was starting to have panic attacks when I saw her number flash up on my phone yet again! She once made me sit on the phone with her for 3 hours moving files around as if I had no other work to do - I was extremely busy in my main role.

For all those naysayers, most of our roles will be replaced in the future by AI anyway, so no point in acting like WFH is the be all and end all of us - it will be AI. We have worse things to come like more pandemics, and extreme weather.

I think the only people that are really pissed off about this or the micromanagers and those that are bitter they cannot WFH. I also worked on site for a few months somewhere where no one was following covid safety measures, and though I loved being around my colleagues having to deal with all the stress of COVID in the office was not fun.

Personally I will no longer work somewhere that expects me to be in everyday. I have been job hunting for about 2 months, and bar 1 or 2 companies, everyone is moving to a Flexi working model.

@Tealightsandd

WFH might be good for affluent people with spacious comfortable home environments, who are in a settled stage of life. Everyone else, less so.

That's simply not true.

It suits all sorts of people, doesn't suit all sorts of other people.

People are not just a demographic that you want to slip them into. 2 people could have very similar circumstances, wages, housing background, same age etc. And one may want to work flexibly and the other won't.

What industry do you work in, that has made you believe that if one person can't do something, then no one can? Why do you think that's how employment works?

And yet you don’t want to go back to work. I had to work 80 hours a week as the staff were ‘isolating’ only went home to go to bed. You are so hard done by

Should be grateful they still have a job.

Ugh I hate this attitude, why should people be grateful? They work in exchange for money, let's not pretend employers are altruistic. The rich have got richer during this pandemic but the plebs are to busy fighting amongst themselves to notice. 🙄

@threatmatrix

You mean by the ‘old’ way a year ago? Aren’t you lucky to have been able to tet paid staying at home.

People wfh got paid to do their job from home.

They were still doing their job.

The fact that other people have different roles with different requirements have nothing to do with it.

But since when have people only been able to have perks or working conditions if everyone else can't have it?

Can we print this on a tshirt?!

@threatmatrix why don't you get one of these jobs then?

osbertthesyrianhamster

Absolutely spot on. It’s taken only a year for these people not to want to go to work.

I employ love, I can do what I like.

Why are you so bitter then love? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@threatmatrix

And yet you don’t want to go back to work. I had to work 80 hours a week as the staff were ‘isolating’ only went home to go to bed. You are so hard done by

And I worked 70-80 hours a week to keep the company open and get it Covid safe for field staff, while 90% of the staff were furloughed. And had a great summer last year.

I don't think want those furloughed to pay for being furloughed or think they owe me or that it should have any impact on their lives at all

What does any of that have anything to do with what we are talking about?

And people working from home ARE working. Just not in their usual building.

I will ask again, did you have a problem with working from home before match 2020? No one wants to answer that.

I will ask again, did you have a problem with working from home before match 2020? No one wants to answer that.

You'd think it was a new concept!

@SaltyAF - even if we accept it is purely selfish, how many people would willingly give up hours and hours of their week and large sums of money altruistically? Possibly even optimal MH. Because that is what is being asked of commuters who can work at home and want to work at home.

How many people berating commuters on here are actually making that sacrifice themselves - choosing to needlessly trudge to a workplace for the benefit of others - and how many don’t have that choice?

As I asked earlier, how far do we take this logic? I don’t have a gym membership so don’t support that industry - is that wrong? Should I spend more on clothes I don’t want or need to keep other people in jobs?

And do I have to support businesses that, as I mentioned upthread, are complacent and have a crap offering because they rely on office workers without other options?

Wfh has acquired an ethical dimension it never had pre-pandemic, but I believe a lot of this boils down to resistance to change and envy.