WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

Also I think that some who are at home will naturally drift back to the office if they feel others are getting opportunities or promotions that they aren't. My worry is that the last to be able to drop everything and come back are working mums, lone parents and those with health conditions.

I think your employers are unusual. DH and DC all work in the City and they've have all been advised that they won't be expected to come into the office more than 2 days a week from now on (although at one company people can do more office days if they prefer). DS's company have even issued new contracts and given everyone a small salary increase to cover the costs of home working.

Better to have a hybrid approach - and people can chose to mix wfh or all office based.

It won't be cost effective to make it purely choice where you're based; people will be told what they must do. With hybrid, you're looking at people lugging equipment back and forth if they do both office & WFH, duplicating all the equipment. Do you want to have a cup of tea while at work lug mug-milk-etc back and forth, too. Headphones for your music? Lug that back and forth too. Do you want a quiet and clean desk to work at while in office good luck getting one of those. Would you like a bottle of water or a pen or some scratch paper to make notes on, what about access to a good printer or scanner? Good luck accessing all those. Do you have a high spec laptop -- will there be high spec monitors, keyboard, mouse to lug back and forth with it each time, too?

My job, We aren't allowed to do our own IT admin, has to all be provided by the IT people who would be... remote. IT are the people who are supposed to do all the hardware for us, too.

I lost my webcam last week. First one ever, got it after 12m of wfh. Had to move it to disemble equipment I was using but had to move due to lack of secure space at home to work in. No idea where the webcam is now. Maybe someone will authorise a replacement webcam out of work budgets in 2022.

@aSofaNearYou

I have to say I really struggle to relate to people saying WFH improves mental health. Perhaps it's because I already had a few years largely stuck at home with a baby just before Covid but I find constantly being in the same place so extremely depressing. I can't see how that could be better for people's mental health, generally speaking.

Because my physical health is absolutely shit. So WFH means I don't need to dose myself with opiods just to get out of the door in a morning. I know longer need to rely on others for lifts. Because of this I am more available to work. My mental health is 100% better wfh

I've worked on the front line for the NHS from day 1 (as has the OP in fact)
My job largely cannot be done from home and I did in fact get Covid from my patients which I regarded as an occupational hazard.
I still do not in any way begrudge people whose jobs can be done from home doing so
Why would it make my life any better if other people are worse off and can't do something that is helpful for them just because I can't?
Weird dog in the manger attitude.

@Mayaspecialist DP has ASD and prefers the office. Because then he can do a few minutes of ‘small talk’ before excusing himself. He can also talk to people regarding work. Which isn’t very difficult for him.
Now he’s sat alone at home all day. The only option for socialising is to go to an event ‘specifically for socialising’ which he hates and is too intense for him. Few hours straight of social interaction. Unlike work where it’s nice manageable chunks and all v natural to cut off.

I have ADD and am similar….

@80caloriesofbiscuitplease

Also I think that some who are at home will naturally drift back to the office if they feel others are getting opportunities or promotions that they aren't. My worry is that the last to be able to drop everything and come back are working mums, lone parents and those with health conditions.

I think this is exactly what will happen if there's a flexible model. Women, especially mothers, will be the ones who "benefit" and as will result will miss opportunities, both formal promotions and smaller incidental opportunities, like the opportunity to attend an event or a meeting as a development opportunty, that will go to those who are more visible.

Far from being good for women's careers it could have the exact opposite effect.

Because let's say if only starters want to be in the office and all the people who have the experience want to wfh, then the starters won't be able to learn from those more experienced people. Which was the point in the first place.
Companies could/should arrange things so new starters get an in-office experience with e.g. their line manager and/or close colleagues being in the office with them at first. Staff WFH patterns could be arranged so people go in for some meetings etc and WFH on things where the office isn't necessary/is a distraction e.g. quiet report-writing.

And sorry but I didnt get the OP wanted an hybrid system. her point right from the start was to say that wfh was 'taken away from her'. Well, her WFH day WAS taken away from her; but she clearly makes a broader point about her company and the world in general keeping 'an aspect' of WFH.

It won't be cost effective to make it purely choice where you're based; people will be told what they must do. With hybrid, you're looking at people lugging equipment back and forth if they do both office & WFH, duplicating all the equipment. Do you want to have a cup of tea while at work lug mug-milk-etc back and forth, too. Headphones for your music? Lug that back and forth too. Do you want a quiet and clean desk to work at while in office good luck getting one of those. Would you like a bottle of water or a pen or some scratch paper to make notes on, what about access to a good printer or scanner? Good luck accessing all those. Do you have a high spec laptop -- will there be high spec monitors, keyboard, mouse to lug back and forth with it each time, too?

This is a bit OTT. I’ve worked in hotdesking environments for years, with one day a week wfh, and there isn’t a lot of lugging stationery and keyboards and mugs back and forth between home and work.

There are these amazing things called lockers and drawers and you keep all your stuff in those. Separate set of peripherals if needed for home. Only thing that goes back and forth is the laptop.

For those with physical issues taking laptops back and forth, or critical business continuity roles where they always need to be able to log on from home at very short notice - they have two laptops, one for work, one for home.

Global printers and scanners - so if the local one to your desk is fucked you can access any other one, including printing to other offices if you need to.

Double sets of peripherals and even laptops works out a lot cheaper than city centre floor space for 100% of staff rather than even 70%.

The original thinking was, if you can work from home, then do. But I think some people need to be aware of how their comments sound to front line workers in particular who might be reading this

But we aren't talking about wfh in relation to the pandemic. We are talking about it as a long term working patterns.

Besides which, do teachers worry about posting things they have done during the summer holidays, and think about how that looks to parents who have to spend a fortune on childcare and juggle work during the summer holidays?

I wouldn't expect a teacher, to not enjoy some perks of their own job because that's not available to other people.

Every job is different. And wfh would work for some roles and not others. Some people and not others.

It must have been awful to be front line staff during the pandemic and people have worked so hard in so many conditions. But there were plenty of teachers not wanting to go back, should they have not have had that opinion or voiced it, because NHS workers were more at risk.

Can only the people who took the most risk have an opinion on their own working conditions. And everyone else be quiet, because of how it looks to anyone who took more risk?

But only if we fail to make men change and step up to the plate

This is a great opportunity to get men doing more at home and with childcare as they can no longer cite their long hours/ commute/ work travel as reasons not to step up.

Again I think the world IS changing on this front and I see lots of younger male colleagues working LTFT to care for their children, leaving on time for the school/ nursery run etc

This is an opportunity for women at work to get to share things more equally with their partners. Having borne the brunt of the pandemic home schooling and self isolation women are sick of it and want men to change and I hope they do. This is another area where we should not want to go back to regressive patterns.

Hybrid working works well if the people you are working with are all from the same department (or maybe two).
You can ensure the right people are there all at the same time, organise meetings on some days etc…

It doesn’t work if

• you are expecting people to come on different days in different weeks because it makes childcare unmanageable
• if you are working with many people from different departments (eg projects) where you end up still doing meetings over zoom because half of the people aren’t in said office.
• you are expecting people to come just for one meeting and then go back home because it’s not ‘their day’ but don’t include the travel time within their working hours - who would want to have a 2 hour journey for a one hour meeting.

Of course if you have fixed days, you will only ever meet one set of people and not the others…
I’m wondering how this is going to work for women (who normally share the load for the childcare).

[quote CastawayQueen]@Mayaspecialist DP has ASD and prefers the office. Because then he can do a few minutes of ‘small talk’ before excusing himself. He can also talk to people regarding work. Which isn’t very difficult for him.
Now he’s sat alone at home all day. The only option for socialising is to go to an event ‘specifically for socialising’ which he hates and is too intense for him. Few hours straight of social interaction. Unlike work where it’s nice manageable chunks and all v natural to cut off.

I have ADD and am similar….[/quote]
Of course some people with certain extra requirments will still prefer to be in. But plenty would benefit from and extra day or 2 at home with less stimulation.

You and your husband, wouldn't. But I have worked for huge companies, some of the UK biggest who were starting to realise they were missing out on good staff, because those staff didn't perform well on in a full on environment 5 days a week.

Those people who have extra requirements, wether nd or physically disabled, mental health problems etc often benefit from more flexible working arrangements. Some don't.

With a flexible approach, those that want to be in full time, can be. Those they benefit from time away can still do well in the work place.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

But only if we fail to make men change and step up to the plate

This is a great opportunity to get men doing more at home and with childcare as they can no longer cite their long hours/ commute/ work travel as reasons not to step up.

Again I think the world IS changing on this front and I see lots of younger male colleagues working LTFT to care for their children, leaving on time for the school/ nursery run etc

This is an opportunity for women at work to get to share things more equally with their partners. Having borne the brunt of the pandemic home schooling and self isolation women are sick of it and want men to change and I hope they do. This is another area where we should not want to go back to regressive patterns.

Isn't that contradictory? Men have had the opportunity to wfh right through the pandemic and yet we know the homeschooling burden fell to women, who were also wfh.

@tickingthebox73

Speaking as an employer working from home has been an absolute s**t-show.

For every person doing "more", and for everyone where it is "working well" I have two more doing the bare minimum, one who you can never get hold of and several who are "shocked" to be pulled up for lack of work and productivity.

I have had people who have taken their kids out of childcare then get caught out when trying to take phone calls, I have had customer complaints about kids audible.

I pulled in one person who had done less than 10% of volume of work than her colleagues, and got an earful as "didn't I know covid meant no childcare" I called her out on it - as at the time Nurseries were open...She was gobsmacked that she was expected to actually work from home...she even launched a grievance against me for discrimination (thank goodness her solicitor set her straight and she withdrew it).

And yes, like you my employees don't want to come back....because they ALL "work better" from home....

It's the same in many businesses.

But just wait for the MN mantra of "it's the manager's fault..."

Lots if people work part time these days which results in the same issues with getting people together for meetings as wfh days only worse as they are not available at all on certain days.
It's not a wholly new problem.

We deal with it by having core hours that everyone has to do and a lot of hybrid meetings with some people in person and some via Teams. It works OK if not too huge and chaired properly. It means people can join who just wouldn't have been invited before now because of practicality.

spare a thought for your younger colleagues who are missing out in the opportunities you once had.

I worked in an office from the age of 21 to 23 and hated it. I've WFH ever since.

My sisters are 21 and 24 and both are loving WFH.

*It doesn’t work if

• you are expecting people to come on different days in different weeks because it makes childcare unmanageable
• if you are working with many people from different departments (eg projects) where you end up still doing meetings over zoom because half of the people aren’t in said office.
• you are expecting people to come just for one meeting and then go back home because it’s not ‘their day’ but don’t include the travel time within their working hours - who would want to have a 2 hour journey for a one hour meeting.

Of course if you have fixed days, you will only ever meet one set of people and not the others…*
I’m wondering how this is going to work for women (who normally share the load for the childcare).

You can do bother set days for some and others can be more flexible.

Lots of places have meetings with people in the same team, but based all over the UK and the World. Having some people on zoom, has been a usual way of working for a lot of people.

This morning, I needed to speak to one offices IT teams. 3 of them in their office, me on teams. I wasn't going to drive a 4 hour round trip for a 45 min meeting. I would have done the same if I was office based.

If some people have set days, and some people don't you meet lots of different people.

Many offices have operated like this successfully for quite a while.

@LST I do get that some people prefer it and find their MH improved, I just don't think it's likely to be the case that a majority of people would benefit from a society where everybody that can work from home, does. Especially when we get to the point where most of the workforce have never worked in office to forge the kind of bonds and rapport that simply aren't built over Zoom. Seems a very lonely world.

[quote aSofaNearYou]@LST I do get that some people prefer it and find their MH improved, I just don't think it's likely to be the case that a majority of people would benefit from a society where everybody that can work from home, does. Especially when we get to the point where most of the workforce have never worked in office to forge the kind of bonds and rapport that simply aren't built over Zoom. Seems a very lonely world. [/quote]
But surely it works on a case by case basis. I have proved I am more than capable of doing my job from home. I prefer it and so does my manager. If it doesn't work for others then they can go into the office. Not everyone is the same I understand that. But a total blanket rule for everyone just doesn't make sense to me

[quote aSofaNearYou]@LST I do get that some people prefer it and find their MH improved, I just don't think it's likely to be the case that a majority of people would benefit from a society where everybody that can work from home, does. Especially when we get to the point where most of the workforce have never worked in office to forge the kind of bonds and rapport that simply aren't built over Zoom. Seems a very lonely world. [/quote]
agree - there is a wider picture to be viewed. Because some people are in niche roles and can sceessfully work from home - does not extend to wother employees. IMO if a job entails in any way dealing with the public - it should not be done by WFH

Can we lose this narrative that you need a "spacious and luxurious home" to be able to WFH effectively? I live in a small 2-bed ex-council house and by being creative with use of space and spending £80 on a small desk, have carved out a perfectly functional workstation in a corner of one of the rooms. I'm more productive WFH because I now tend to start earlier due to not having to commute, and also because WFH allows me to manage my physical disability much better - again helped by not having to commute on uncomfortable buses for two hours a day - so I'm not exhausted and losing focus from being in chronic pain for the last hour or so of the working day, the way I was pre-pandemic.

@Mayaspecialist I thought we were talking about either extremes. I have already said upthread that I believe hybrid is best.

@Backhills that’s not necessarily true. Someone could go into the office, sit down and never talk to anyone else. Someone at home could make the effort to reach out to lots of different teams and have lots of opportunities. It all depends on the person and their team.

One of the best people I’d ever worked with was part time and most of that WFH. Alert, responsive and got a lot more done in 2 hours than most full timers did in 6.

However she had been full time in the office for several years before going part time and as a result knew lots of people - which is what enabled her to be productive.

Again - some remote workers are in teams that naturally come into contact with lots of others (central services) - doesn’t matter whether they WFH they will have done ‘work’ for people and so everyone knows them anyway.

Others are in teams where the only people they interact with on a daily basis are the 3/4 people in the team. They’d benefit from ‘networking’ as an activity.

Furthermore some people’s bosses are proactive (my current one actively directs things my way and promotes me to people)band so they don’t need to go sniffing around on their own a lot. Others have managers who don’t give a fig.

All very circumstance dependent and one must work out what suits them depending on the environment. However at a junior-mid level (in my role at least) more hours worked in different domains means quicker promotions because we’re in a technical role that cannot be taught. You need to have hours and hours of practical experience before you master the skill. People who don’t have the time to devote won’t progress because they just won’t be as good as someone else who put in the hours. It’s as simple as that.

I think employers are getting a bit fed up of hearing employees talking about using work time for childcare, taking the dog for a walk and other non work related activities.

I know my work place have really stressed if that WFH is going to happen , it is NOT to be abused in this way and will be very carefully monitored.

Also if I wasn’t clear all else equal being in the office and being alert brings more opportunities for the sole reason that things happen around you.

In reality it depends. The important thing is to form a dense enough network so that everyone with various working patterns can succès