WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

But surely it works on a case by case basis. I have proved I am more than capable of doing my job from home. I prefer it and so does my manager. If it doesn't work for others then they can go into the office. Not everyone is the same I understand that. But a total blanket rule for everyone just doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah I agree it doesn't always have to be a blanket rule, I was more talking about the narrative that WFH is just better for MH. I'm sure it can be for some and can see why, but I would wager for more than half it probably isn't, and definitely wouldn't be long term.

@Backhills

I once worked out a deal that made my employer £500k because of a water cooler moment. I was "this close" with the deal, but couldn't quite make the last little bit work. Mentioned it to a colleague in passing, who had the beginnings of a good solution.

I wouldn't have called her for help if we hadn't both been in the office though. It wasn't her job to help me and it probably wouldn't have occured to me that she could.

As a business owner, I'd be pretty worried if 500k deals were the result of serendipity. It's nice that it happened, but not sustainable in the long run. Could you have emailed round the office? We often do that if we're stuck on something and want to know if someone knows more.

I dispute that it's all 'middle class jobs' that can wfh. I can't imagine a more soul destroying work environment than a call centre. Lots of people complain of how horrible they are to work in
Why can't those people wfh if that's more comfortable for them? They are subject to a crazy level of monitoring anyway via recorded calls and metrics it would be easy to see if they were 'productive'
Why do they all need to get herded into an office to do that job when all they need is a phone line and some IT?

Why do people 'dealing with the public in any capacity' have to be doing that from an out of home office among not an in home one? I can't understand the logic or see how I would necessarily tell the difference

When I have contacted my bank (the only call centre I ever really use) their service has been the exact same amount of shit as it was before. The excuse has changed but the wait times haven't as far as I can tell. You had to wait for ages and go through endless stupid messages before and you still do now. Online services are lots better these days too. I sorted my driving licence renewal, tax return issues and insurance all online with no need to call anyone.

@OneAlabamaReturn

I think employers are getting a bit fed up of hearing employees talking about using work time for childcare, taking the dog for a walk and other non work related activities.

I know my work place have really stressed if that WFH is going to happen , it is NOT to be abused in this way and will be very carefully monitored.

Depends on the company. Mine has said they really don’t care when the work is done. If I wanted to work from 6am-9am, then have a long break, then work again from 1pm-5:30, that’s fine as long as I do 7.5 hours. They have the same view if I was in the office, I could come in early and have a long lunch if it suited.

[quote CastawayQueen]@Mayaspecialist DP has ASD and prefers the office. Because then he can do a few minutes of ‘small talk’ before excusing himself. He can also talk to people regarding work. Which isn’t very difficult for him.
Now he’s sat alone at home all day. The only option for socialising is to go to an event ‘specifically for socialising’ which he hates and is too intense for him. Few hours straight of social interaction. Unlike work where it’s nice manageable chunks and all v natural to cut off.

I have ADD and am similar….[/quote]
My OH is the same. He hates socialising, parties, etc and can't do small talk. But he loves the office environment as it's basically the only social interaction he gets. He can talk freely with colleagues about work, and will do "small talk" with people on adjoining desks etc about sport, holidays, etc., as he already knows them through work. He hates working from home and where the only social interactions are big office events, such as presentations, christmas parties, conferences, etc. He's almost certainly on the Aspergers spectrum!

Our DS is turning out the same. He's had a miserable year at Uni. No face to face teaching, no seminars, no tutorials, no clubs & societies, gym and sports hall closed for most of the year, etc. The only things that have happened "face to face" has been the parties/socialising in the bars when allowed and in other flats when the bars were closed. He's not interested in drinking and drugs at all so hasn't done any of that. He was planning to do "social" things via the clubs & societies, sports, inter-college competitions (quizzes etc) - none of that has been allowed by the Uni, so the only people he's met have been his flatmates. They've been fine, but he has no common interests with them, none are doing similar courses, none are in to his hobbies, etc., so he's not really done much with them.

All this working from home/online studying etc., is fine for the extraverted socialites who love big gatherings, parties, and have no problem making new friends, but it's a nightmare for the quiet/shy ones who would usually make friends etc in the workplace/classroom/lecture theatre etc.

@tickingthebox73

Speaking as an employer working from home has been an absolute s**t-show.

For every person doing "more", and for everyone where it is "working well" I have two more doing the bare minimum, one who you can never get hold of and several who are "shocked" to be pulled up for lack of work and productivity.

I have had people who have taken their kids out of childcare then get caught out when trying to take phone calls, I have had customer complaints about kids audible.

I pulled in one person who had done less than 10% of volume of work than her colleagues, and got an earful as "didn't I know covid meant no childcare" I called her out on it - as at the time Nurseries were open...She was gobsmacked that she was expected to actually work from home...she even launched a grievance against me for discrimination (thank goodness her solicitor set her straight and she withdrew it).

And yes, like you my employees don't want to come back....because they ALL "work better" from home....

Absolutely spot on!

Sums up the issues employers side of things perfectly.

Yes, the piss takers can also do so in an office, but there is much more scope to take the piss when you wfh.

People are literally saving money on nursery costs and after school provision as they 'knock off' at school pick up time when they are supposed to be working until 17:00 .

Then, as I said before, there's the dog walkers who take a nice chunk out of the day take fido out , whereas before they would do it before or after work.

My other half gets the face on when I don't complete the list of domestic chores she suggests I do , because ' I'm at home' .

@VeryLongBeeeeep

Can we lose this narrative that you need a "spacious and luxurious home" to be able to WFH effectively? I live in a small 2-bed ex-council house and by being creative with use of space and spending £80 on a small desk, have carved out a perfectly functional workstation in a corner of one of the rooms. I'm more productive WFH because I now tend to start earlier due to not having to commute, and also because WFH allows me to manage my physical disability much better - again helped by not having to commute on uncomfortable buses for two hours a day - so I'm not exhausted and losing focus from being in chronic pain for the last hour or so of the working day, the way I was pre-pandemic.

Yes, not everyone has a spacious home to work from. When I was having to teach and tutor from home, I couldn't go downstairs as my little boy was down there and didn't have a desk upstairs (tiny two up, two down house), so I felt very resourceful... I used my son's IKEA high chair as my laptop desk, lol! Not the best, but the height was right and it gave me a giggle if nothing else.

When I have contacted my bank (the only call centre I ever really use) their service has been the exact same amount of shit as it was before. The excuse has changed but the wait times haven't as far as I can tell. You had to wait for ages and go through endless stupid messages before and you still do now.

This is so true. They just have a better excuse for it now.

My last company (which I left mid-pandemic) had a fully flexible working policy for all it's office based staff. For those who say that it doesn't work - IT DOES! It works for so many people at all levels - a few people would WFH all the time (coming in only for quarterly staff meetings) but those were the sorts of people who were miserable sods in the office anyway.

You get into a rhythm - you know which day the people you needed or wanted to see tended to be in. You also tended to choose the working location that best suited the type of work you were doing that day. So if I had a big document or spreadsheet to work on, I'd choose to WFH with my multiple screens. I'd come into the office for adminy /bitty days, and use the chance to catch up with others. But others would use their WFH for admin/bitty days, and prefer to work in the office with access to the laser printers and fast IT for the big document days.

I wish people who say that it doesn't work would actually go and work in a fully flexible environment first - it does work, it's just a different way of thinking about how you work.

Also, when people talk about doing the washing/walking the dog etc as a benefit, it's not taking the piss. If you're not dicking around by the water-cooler, taking an hour to escape from the oppression of the office at lunch, and sitting in traffic for two hours on your commute each a day, it's entirely possible to do the equivalent number of hours of productive work WFH AND walk the dog, pick your kids up from school and hang out the washing.

Each organisation is different. Some could continue, but choose not to. Some have been managing ok but actually woukd work better back in the office and some need to get back in to make things work better. Surely, if you don’t want to go back as your employer wishes, then you need to find employment with terms and conditions that you find palatable?

There is also the fact that loss of income generated from people going to work in the offices in towns and cities will be huge- estimated to be £100’s of billions. Lots of unemployment would be caused, less taxation to the treasury... it does need to be borne in kind. It might be nice fir some to enjoy wfh, but it could have very serious consequences for local and national economy.

I can also tell you that as a customer and a client, wfh has not always made things more efficient/resulted in a better service for me on either of those counts. I have found serious issues and in several cases from organisations with whom I’d previously had no issues. In many cases issues around wfh were a contributory or causative factor.

I also know personally of several people who own small businesses who have not found wfh a universal good. And no, they aren’t all just “not managing their staff properly”- the reasons they have not found it a land of milk and honey are varied. I’m sure lots of employees do enjoy wfh, I’m sure some employees are as (or more) productive than they were in the office. I’m sure some employees believe this to be true, when it isn’t. It is also true that it can work well in established teams, but less so where there is no relationships built.

Can we lose this narrative that you need a "spacious and luxurious home" to be able to WFH effectively?

Yes 100% this! I live in a 2 bedroom 500sq foot flat with no garden. DH and I both WFH and on top of that my DS is home educated. We are STILL much happier than we ever were in the office.

I think employers are getting a bit fed up of hearing employees talking about using work time for childcare, taking the dog for a walk and other non work related activities.

I know my work place have really stressed if that WFH is going to happen , it is NOT to be abused in this way and will be very carefully monitored.

Your employer sounds massively backwards. As long as the work is getting done who gives a shit if someone walks the dog or hangs out the washing or what have you. Flexible work actually MEANS flexible work where I am. I had a new starter ask me the other day if it was OK if she started an hour later one day so she could watch her DC's sports day. I was like you don't even need to ask me. You're an adult. As long as the work is done I really don't care what time you start.

My employer is giving people the option to work 2 days a week from home going forward (not compulsory though obviously). Mainly because it’s what everyone in our industry is doing and they realised they’d be uncompetitive if they didn’t.

I suppose in the public sector there isn’t that same competition over working conditions?

@CovoidOfAllHumanity Why do people 'dealing with the public in any capacity' have to be doing that from an out of home office among not an in home one? I can't understand the logic or see how I would necessarily tell the difference

My experience is that they are more unlikely to be able to deal with your issues. I've had a steady stream of experiences where the person has been unable to do something for a multitude of excuses/reasons. They've spanned from "my internet's just gone down so you'll have to phone back to get someone else" to "I don't know how to do that, I'll have to email "x" to ask them and get back to you later" (which they never do). These are the things that wouldn't normally happen in offices where usually they have better quality internet, and people around them to ask how to do things if they don't know.

I cannot WFH and love the fact my drive to work is so much faster now with less traffic. I haven't experienced any crap service this year (or any more than usual..).

WFH for ever, please!

Reading some of these you'd think no one ever partook in non-work-related activities in the office either. Christ, when I worked in an office 50% of the time seemed to be taken up making tea, having chats in the kitchen, dicking about with colleagues, gossiping etc.

@WhatWillSantaBring

That last paragraph is so true. So much time is wasted in the office and yet people seem to find that difficult to swallow when you mention quickly hanging your washing out.

@80caloriesofbiscuitplease

I really think we've been given this chance to improve our quality of life, ease parental guilt, live healthier, enjoy more time with family and we're going to go right back to the stressful rat race of pre 2020. This will also cost businesses in the long term, time off sick, stress effecting productivity, commuting time.

But your quality of life, the easing of your parental guilt etc are not the concern of the business that pays your wages? Commuting time is also not relevant to your employer. WFH has been great for many of us but it's been of benefit to us as individuals in many cases. Many companies want staff back in and have a right to insist on it.

I’m public sector & still wfh. From September, we’ve been told we can be flexible with the expectation of at least one day a week in the office. I’ll be doing 1 day in the office & the rest from home. I’ve loved wfh.

*Absolutely spot on!

Sums up the issues employers side of things perfectly.

Yes, the piss takers can also do so in an office, but there is much more scope to take the piss when you wfh.

People are literally saving money on nursery costs and after school provision as they 'knock off' at school pick up time when they are supposed to be working until 17:00 .

Then, as I said before, there's the dog walkers who take a nice chunk out of the day take fido out , whereas before they would do it before or after work.*

I respectfully disagree. For some people, WFH has been an excuse to take the piss. For good employees, it works fine. Today, for example I'm WFH, starting at 7.30 and will finish at 18.00. Breaks I've taken/will take: Prepare lunch (10 mins)(then eaten at my desk while working). Walk Fido (1 hour). Hang washing (10 mins) . Prepare dinner (20 mins). Collect kids from school (45 mins). \Piss around on MN (20 mins). Total working time: 7h45 mins.

Typical day at the office:
In office 8.30 - 17.00. Lunch (45 mins). Coffee bar trips (x3 at 10 mins each) (30 mins). Piss about on MN (20 mins). Total working time: 6h55

But your quality of life, the easing of your parental guilt etc are not the concern of the business that pays your wages? Commuting time is also not relevant to your employer

But they absolutely should be relevant. Happy employers are more productive. You can pay them less. Commuting time (especially on subsidised public transport) is wasted productivity time and TERRIBLE for the environment, so is a socialised public cost, which we all pay for (including employers) in the form of shittier public services and higher taxes.

Your employer sounds massively backwards. As long as the work is getting done who gives a shit if someone walks the dog or hangs out the washing or what have you. Flexible work actually MEANS flexible work where I am. I had a new starter ask me the other day if it was OK if she started an hour later one day so she could watch her DC's sports day. I was like you don't even need to ask me. You're an adult. As long as the work is done I really don't care what time you start.

Sounds like you're over staffed.

@80caloriesofbiscuitplease you think working twelve hours in A&E on a Saturday night is a perk 😂

I agree it is such a shame that employers are bringing people back in.

Even with a short commute of 30 minutes, that’s still 5 hours wasted every single week which could be spent with family.

Not to mention the congestion and pollution caused.

I did feel annoyed when people didn’t bother paying for childcare, some really took the piss and it seems that those cases are being used as part of the justification to bring all employees back. I would say that the periods when schools/nurseries were closed should not be part of the productivity measurements.

It is very easy for organisations to measure whether employees are logged in and active on their computer, which gives a similar check as being in the office.

@SofiaMichelle

Your employer sounds massively backwards. As long as the work is getting done who gives a shit if someone walks the dog or hangs out the washing or what have you. Flexible work actually MEANS flexible work where I am. I had a new starter ask me the other day if it was OK if she started an hour later one day so she could watch her DC's sports day. I was like you don't even need to ask me. You're an adult. As long as the work is done I really don't care what time you start.

Sounds like you're over staffed.

Unless it’s a call Center or similar where output per minute is a performance metric this is normal. The definition of productivity is output PER unit time. Some people work better with short breaks , some get revved up and go straight through the hours without stopping

Crap employees are always going to be crap. The colleague who would never go to the wards and help nursing staff struggling with setting up a webcam and speaker for a meeting won't start doing it if you make her come into the office. The one who has three hour phone calls to her boyfriend during work time will still do that, she'll just go to the bathroom or go for ten thousand vape breaks. Getting people back in the office doesn't make people better employees, it just means the rest of us know about it and can become slowly more resentful.