WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@Tealightsandd

as they will only find people who want full time office work.

Lots and lots and lots of people might not want full time office work, but only a minority can afford not to. Homes suitable for WFH are the preserve of a privileged few.

Also, with the country in massive debt, our battered economy really could do without losing the billions that it gets from the office based industries.

And I really can't state enough how shit WFH has been for customers and clients.

WFH has only been shit for customers and clients if the tech isn't up to scratch or if people aren't pulling their weight.

My clients are perfectly happy. They haven't noticed a difference generally. My phone system works exactly the same as it did in the office and I am available at the same times with the same cover if I am in a meeting. I am answering emails just the same.

Obviously I haven't been able to visit them in person since Covid. I would happily return to client visits when allowed but generally clients have appreciated the cost savings involved with having meetings via teams and in many circumstances will continue to have them remotely.

Less reliance upon the post and more use of email and electronic signatures etc have speeded up communication too as well as saving postal costs for clients sending documents in.

Luckily my employer is taking a pragmatic approach and allowing us to continue working from home if we want to subject to coming in when business needs require our presence. They have noticed the increased productivity due to WFH. Most people seem to want to mix home and office working, but those who are keen to return to the office can, those who like WFH can continue to enjoy the benefits. If anyone isn't being productive then this will be addressed via their line manager.

[quote CastawayQueen]@ancientgran also watching how they do things - it’s very unnatural to schedule a call, have everyone get on it and watch someone else work.
If you’re sitting with them you can just roll your chair over when you see something going on.
You don’t know what you don’t know - with calls you can only get known unknowns answered.[/quote]
You don't know what you don't know is a brilliant way to explain it.

You don’t know what you don’t know

I would say that also, to some degree, applies to watercooler chat that happens "as and when" and does not include everybody.

@Rach212 so because not everyone can work from home then no one should be able to?

As someone who has had to work the whole way through, no luxury of working from home, I would like to say you are being unreasonable

I've also worked the whole way through. I just happen to have worked from home.

So you really think that just because you can't work from home, no one else should be allowed to either?

@allihaveleft

You don’t know what you don’t know

I would say that also, to some degree, applies to watercooler chat that happens "as and when" and does not include everybody.

It includes more than if everyone is at home.

A pp mentioned the water cooler moment rather scathingly. It does happen. Dd, recent graduate previously mentioned, was 4 months into her 6 month probation last spring working in a large office. In a quiet moment in the office kitchen she was approached by a more senior person from a different team about a new role in that team. A discussion with the manager was arranged and took place, an official interview was scheduled then lockdown happened. That role has now disappeared and teams are no longer able to observe colleagues working in other parts of the office. People are isolated, you talk to the people directly involved in what you’re doing. Where is the opportunity for progression and development.

Yes I understand many people with young families are very much enjoying and appreciating having more family time but spare a thought for your younger colleagues who are missing out in the opportunities you once had.

Speaking as an employer working from home has been an absolute s**t-show.

For every person doing "more", and for everyone where it is "working well" I have two more doing the bare minimum, one who you can never get hold of and several who are "shocked" to be pulled up for lack of work and productivity.

I have had people who have taken their kids out of childcare then get caught out when trying to take phone calls, I have had customer complaints about kids audible.

I pulled in one person who had done less than 10% of volume of work than her colleagues, and got an earful as "didn't I know covid meant no childcare" I called her out on it - as at the time Nurseries were open...She was gobsmacked that she was expected to actually work from home...she even launched a grievance against me for discrimination (thank goodness her solicitor set her straight and she withdrew it).

And yes, like you my employees don't want to come back....because they ALL "work better" from home....

@tickingthebox73

Speaking as an employer working from home has been an absolute s**t-show.

For every person doing "more", and for everyone where it is "working well" I have two more doing the bare minimum, one who you can never get hold of and several who are "shocked" to be pulled up for lack of work and productivity.

I have had people who have taken their kids out of childcare then get caught out when trying to take phone calls, I have had customer complaints about kids audible.

I pulled in one person who had done less than 10% of volume of work than her colleagues, and got an earful as "didn't I know covid meant no childcare" I called her out on it - as at the time Nurseries were open...She was gobsmacked that she was expected to actually work from home...she even launched a grievance against me for discrimination (thank goodness her solicitor set her straight and she withdrew it).

And yes, like you my employees don't want to come back....because they ALL "work better" from home....

Whilst I appreciate your team sound a bit shit. If your manager and their mangers (in my case) are praising the teams dedication and productivity it is a completely different situation.

I have to say I really struggle to relate to people saying WFH improves mental health. Perhaps it's because I already had a few years largely stuck at home with a baby just before Covid but I find constantly being in the same place so extremely depressing. I can't see how that could be better for people's mental health, generally speaking.

I once worked out a deal that made my employer £500k because of a water cooler moment. I was "this close" with the deal, but couldn't quite make the last little bit work. Mentioned it to a colleague in passing, who had the beginnings of a good solution.

I wouldn't have called her for help if we hadn't both been in the office though. It wasn't her job to help me and it probably wouldn't have occured to me that she could.

You could say WFH is a perk which shouldn't be taken away. That could also be said of other perks. Other NHS staff get extra pay for working weekends and nights. I would not be permitted to switch my role to work those shifts. Does that mean the extra pay for those shifts should be taken away? Absolutely not.

@Rach212

As someone who has had to work the whole way through, no luxury of working from home, I would like to say you are being unreasonable

Agreed. I think those pp's who are getting a bit defensive and uptight about their office jobs or WFH, just need to think about how it sounds to anyone who's worked on the front line during the past 18 months. I wouldn't say, I'm a teacher and have had to work in school throughout the pandemic therefore everyone should go out to work. Of course not. The original thinking was, if you can work from home, then do. But I think some people need to be aware of how their comments sound to front line workers in particular who might be reading this.

This is so middle class centric, so many people don't have space to work from home, live in HMOs, with extended family or just in tiny flats. Also my team would say their productivity hadn't dropped, it hasn't but the quality has for some, and ever only had one or two days a week wfh. You're not being paid to potter in the garden, put some washing on, wait for deliveries. You didn't apply for a WFH role, is that's what you want apply for that. Covid measures are temporary and it's not about eliminating Covid it's about eliminating deaths and hospitalisation well that part is pretty low now so we need to get back to work.

You hit the nail Op. It's all about 'presenteeism'. Too many managers still manage according to old 'trustless' and process-driven management styles. It basically means they don't trust you, and judge your work entirely on how many hours they've seen you 'working' rather than by how much work you actually do. All statistics show that people who work from home are mostly happier and more productive.

(I'm currently writing a book about how to manage people properly in the 'new' environment.)

we're back in august too really not ready for it

@KingdomScrolls

This is so middle class centric, so many people don't have space to work from home, live in HMOs, with extended family or just in tiny flats. Also my team would say their productivity hadn't dropped, it hasn't but the quality has for some, and ever only had one or two days a week wfh. You're not being paid to potter in the garden, put some washing on, wait for deliveries. You didn't apply for a WFH role, is that's what you want apply for that. Covid measures are temporary and it's not about eliminating Covid it's about eliminating deaths and hospitalisation well that part is pretty low now so we need to get back to work.

Indeed, so why make blanket rules and allow employees to WFH if they want to and it suits their role to do so?

It might be middle class centric but we don't have to be in a race to the bottom to be treated like serfs again.

@mrsrhodgilbert

A pp mentioned the water cooler moment rather scathingly. It does happen. Dd, recent graduate previously mentioned, was 4 months into her 6 month probation last spring working in a large office. In a quiet moment in the office kitchen she was approached by a more senior person from a different team about a new role in that team. A discussion with the manager was arranged and took place, an official interview was scheduled then lockdown happened. That role has now disappeared and teams are no longer able to observe colleagues working in other parts of the office. People are isolated, you talk to the people directly involved in what you’re doing. Where is the opportunity for progression and development.

Yes I understand many people with young families are very much enjoying and appreciating having more family time but spare a thought for your younger colleagues who are missing out in the opportunities you once had.

Which also could happen with hybrid working.

Or whatever skills got her notice by that manager, still may have got her noticed with hybrid working.

I really this romanticism of the office culture. The vast majority of water cooler/kitchen/desk talk is inane chat about the weather. Or often gossip and makes work environments very toxic.

Some young people might be grateful to have 2 days of the week where they don't have to listen to Susan moan about how Bob like the room to warm. Or what they heard about Claire from next doors.

Office bullies exist. Toxic people are rife I offices and many people are happy to be away from them.

What about young people with asd? Or physical disabilities? Hybrid may be far better for them.

Or is it only NT young adults, who are not physically disabled that we need to worry about missing out.

Or the older people in the work place can actually put some effort in and make it work for the younger people, for people with disabilities and ensure non of them miss out

I'm not sure what I will go back to, but my employer has repurposed a lot of desk space and only half my team have a permanent desk. We need a particular set up to do our jobs, so can't just hot desk on a tiny desk. I think we will have a hybrid model. I know a lot of staff are very reluctant to go back full time and they will want to keep them. If I go back full time I will probably leave as I'm already fed up, but I can't see it happening. I would love to go back one day a week though.

WFH a lot of benefits for employers. I haven't had a sick day due to illness or caring for child, but it's a downside for me as I have to care for my child and work, or work while I'm ill. I don't feel like I can call in sick anymore.

From a customer standpoint, wfh has been a nightmare - banks in particular! My dp has found that whilst most worked fine, the ones moaning about going back to the office were the ones underperforming at home. They went back 2 months ago

DH says there’s an issue with online presentism with his work. They feel pressured to be online all the time, whereas at work they would walk about and go to speak to colleagues. He’s sat down far too much and ends up doing really long hours.

I come from a local authority background and lots of ex colleagues are doing basically no work. They do the bare minimum first thing and take the rest of the day off. It’s because their managers are doing the same. They weren’t provided with computers so are limited what they can ask them to do anyway.

Seems unfair to just "pull the plug" and be back i full time. The people I know have been requested to go in a few days but have the option to wfh a couple aswell

@mrsrhodgilbert

A pp mentioned the water cooler moment rather scathingly. It does happen. Dd, recent graduate previously mentioned, was 4 months into her 6 month probation last spring working in a large office. In a quiet moment in the office kitchen she was approached by a more senior person from a different team about a new role in that team. A discussion with the manager was arranged and took place, an official interview was scheduled then lockdown happened. That role has now disappeared and teams are no longer able to observe colleagues working in other parts of the office. People are isolated, you talk to the people directly involved in what you’re doing. Where is the opportunity for progression and development.

Yes I understand many people with young families are very much enjoying and appreciating having more family time but spare a thought for your younger colleagues who are missing out in the opportunities you once had.

I had a similar experience - saw a couple of teams working on something interesting, went to check it out on a whim. That set me on the new career path I am now which is much harder to break into and consequently more highly paid/values than my old role.

For me the key is serendipity. I actually think this could be replicated by an online environment with time (e.g people going into ‘random chat rooms’) for instance but to do it now feels odd as the culture is you should be working at your desk or taking a break away that doesn’t involve other colleagues. If something is ‘scheduled’ a lot of people don’t attend because meetings etc crop up but If there was an online place people couldn’t just ‘drop into’ it would similar the watercooler.

Hmm a bit like mumsnet’s random threads but for work!

Maybe I’ll start one.. good business idea

A relative of mine works for someone very senior in Government. This individual has been chomping at the bit to get all staff back in the workplace full time (and their jobs can be done from home, no problem) because they get cross with the restrictions and don't listen to the guidance from their colleagues! This individual also chooses to work from home themselves, whilst their staff have to go in!