To be confused by SEN, Autism, etc in children?

[Sallygoround631]

A sensitive topic, but I am curious, and hope that it isn't somehow improper to ask.
I admit to ignorance, because I don't have children, and I have not had much experience with children with SEN, Autism, allergies, etc.

What I want to know is, in your opinion, are there more kids with these issues now than, say, 40 years ago, when was a kid in the 80's? (when everything was put down to orange smarties and over activeness)

Was it simply less diagnosed or unknown, and put down to other, behavioural issues?
If so, then I am very glad we are no longer living with such ignorance.
But I am also curious to know if these cases have increased, or merely been there all along?

If they have increased, what are the reasons? Does anyone know?

I feel this is a tender topic and do not wish to cause upset. I am absolutely out of the loop and would love to hear about it.

Educate me!

@Lunde

You need to remember that Asperger's syndrome and higher functioning types of autism were not really diagnosed until the work of Hans Asperger was studied and translated in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

You also need to be aware that prior to the 1970 "Education of the Handicapped" Act that children with learning disabilities in the UK were not entitled to education by Local Authority education departments. Prior to its implementation children with learning disabilities were classified as "unsuitable for education at school" and were under the purview of mental health services either in institutions or at home

Indeed.

Friend's daughter prior to the 70's would have ended up shut away but now qualifies to be educated at a special school for severe learning disabled. Now occasionally treated as a human being

@WineGetsMeThroughIt

I feel it was under diagnosed back then. Children were labelled naughty or lazy. I was one of those kids. I have struggled throughout school and in year 3 I was even sent away to a specialist 'behaviour school' a few days a week. Even at the time I was supremely embarrassed and didn't want any of my friends to know why I was away at this other school. The shame I still feel over it is unbearable. I have never even told my husband and have never discussed it with my parents either. It wasn't until last year that I realised that I have most likely had ADHD my entire life. I cry several times a week about this and feel like I have never succeeded in life or my career because I have been undiagnosed, unmedicated and unable to focus. I am not dumb or stupid. I am extremely creative, funny, witty and smart. But I find it incredibly hard to focus my talents into some kind of career despite having college and university degrees.

I am waiting for a formal diagnosis. My husband calls me names and doesn't believe me when I say I have ADHD. I believe my dad likely has it as well looking back at all the signs and what I know about it. I also believe my son has it. But my husband refuses to have him assessed and will not entertain my notion that he may have it because he's a smart and polite boy. Who I will add, has all the classic symptoms of ADHD 😕

@WineGetsMeThroughIt

If you have the time, have a listen to Tracy Otsuka's podcasts. Start from the very beginning, I think it will help you.

www.tracyotsuka.com/podcast

I’m also confused about the spectrum thing and the bird trait example. Unless something’s changed recently, isn’t an autism diagnosis entirely based on how many of a list of behaviors or traits a person exhibits and how severely those traits or behaviors effect their day to day life? So yes of course there is a spectrum of intensity of behaviors and needs within the group of people diagnosed with autism and I totally accept that this is proper usage of the term in this context. But people who have not been diagnosed might still exhibit some (or many!) of those traits and behaviors without meeting the threshold for diagnosis? I get that it must be upsetting that people minimize the significance of autism on someone’s life by saying things like they’re a ´little bit autistic’ but I don’t under how you can separate people so cleanly into either NT or ND when there just isn’t any kind of clear binary differentiation. Birds and humans are very different, not in the same biological class. And um, ‘bird’ is a really a class and ´human’ is a species so we’re not even comparing living things on the same level? I’d say ´apples and oranges’ but it’s more like ´Eurasian red squirrels and dinosaurs’. Would it be rude or dismissive to say ´I have quite a lot of traits and behaviors that are considered indicators of autism but I don’t meet the criteria for diagnosis’ instead of ´I think I’m a little bit autistic’ ?

@finallyme2018

My son has sen, as a baby he was seriously poorly developed septis which attacked all his organs including causing mild brain damage. If he was born in the 1980s he wouldn't be alive. Alot of babies born poorly or prem are surviving due to better medical care and not just diagnosis as a sickly baby so of cause more children are going to have a diagnosis. Saying that it taken 11 years for a autism diagnosis. He has had severe speech delay. Ongoing health issues, problem with flexibility in his hands plus many more things sensitive wise I've battled shouted cried and I was told it just because he had a rough start he just delayed he'll catch up even it being my parenting, as I was accused of helicopter parenting him apparently not realising I'd spent so long fighting for him I picked up on signals without him needing to verbalise it so step in to support him or remove him if I sense a melt down coming on. Sen is a incredible big umbrella term for many areas of additional needs and whilst progress had been made due to covid we've gone back at least 10 to 15 years from where we'd got to.

and whilst progress had been made due to covid we've gone back at least 10 to 15 years from where we'd got to

I so agree with this.

And your post made me think : My brother (before I was born) died at 6 days old from a heart condition that would have been curable 10 yrs later. I was always so deeply attuned to my mother's agony over this. She is long passed now, too, but each year when his birthday rolls around it still hurts.

I also have a friend who gave birth to a very premature baby girl. She did eventually get an autism diagnosis, and something I am not familiar with : dyspraxia (?). She is still banging her head against a wall trying to get her daughter help from CAMHS. Nobody will bite. it's a fucking mess right now. The girl is 15 now and still needs help but nothing on the horizon.

ASC runs right through my family, in the full range of presentation. Before the late 90s, it simply wasn't diagnosed unless you were at the extreme end.

@covidcloser

Tell that to someone who has a prognosis of never living independently and needing life long care compared to the 'mild end' (so what it upsets the mild ones) that can easily live independently and access what society has to offer without much support.

There is a spectrum and there is very much some that are affected so much that they are unable to live independently a full life whilst others are affected mildly. I( really don't care for the politically correct there isn't a spectrum all people with autism are the same type of bollocks currently spread around. It's not education at all it's bollocks.

@PickAChew

ASC runs right through my family, in the full range of presentation. Before the late 90s, it simply wasn't diagnosed unless you were at the extreme end.

Indeed - a full range of presentation. A spectrum. Yet some would have you believe that all autistics are the same and face the same difficulties which is blatantly untrue.

Often the disruptive ones were the Naughty children in the 1970's, that was the label. Lots of punishments, exclusions and expulsions. It was beaten out of them and often left life long issues as it never leaves it just damaged mental health.

Many of the quiet over sensitive autistic children fell through the school system and in those days it was rarely checked.

These days female autism is only just being diagnosed properly, it's really in it's early stages. Testing is still mainly designed to test for autism in males.

Going further back again they were just locked up if they couldn't cope or labelled as eccentric. I have a long family history of autism.

My great great uncle was put into an institution after having a breakdown.
It was only spoken of in whispers.

Gathering all the information I could from surviving family in the 1980's I can only conclude he was like his brother and his nephew and his great nephew and was also a high functioning autistic. So sad.

@AliceLivesHere

The spectrum refers to how autism affects the individual, not where autistic people sit when pitted up against each other.

-I( really don't care for the politically correct there isn't a spectrum all people with autism are the same type of bollocks currently spread around.

I never said this?

@WineGetsMeThroughIt

Good luck. People understand and the spectrum of autism much more now

There is definitely a change of awareness in education. 25 years ago, when I first began teaching in primary schools, ASD was thought to be quite rare in the mainstream. Pupils with a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD were routinely medicated as a first course of action. Incidence of diagnosis of learning difference and neurodiversity are much more frequent now. In my small primary school, we have many pupils with diagnoses and, importantly, quite a number who are either awaiting assessment, or whose parents say "We think X may have Z condition, can you please keep an eye on them?" who are massively benefiting from being in a learning environment which strives to meet the need of ND learners. The increased awareness, targeted support and accommodations are beneficial beyond the intended pupil, as inclusive pedagogy very often is best practice across the board.
My own DC1 is awaiting assessment for ASD, and we have definitely come up against the "but they have friends" and "but they get jokes" tropes. Luckily, these arguments do not mark the end of further investigation anymore. Increased understanding of sex-based variation in presentation in ASD means more girls are assessed too.

@covidcloser

"The 'spectrum' doesn't have ends. It's not a mild to severe line."

Mild as in mildly affected. Severe as in severely affected. A spectrum very much has ends.... you know... one end mildly affect and one end much more severely affected - that's what a spectrum is!

[quote AliceLivesHere]@covidcloser

"The 'spectrum' doesn't have ends. It's not a mild to severe line."

Mild as in mildly affected. Severe as in severely affected. A spectrum very much has ends.... you know... one end mildly affect and one end much more severely affected - that's what a spectrum is![/quote]

The autistic spectrum is not an end to end measurement of severity where autistic people are placed in an order.

The Spectrum
neuroclastic.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/

@covidcloser

Some people would argue that all people with autism are the same and have them same difficulties. Bollocks of course. A spectrum means just that - all sit at different places on the spectrum.

Meet one person with autism and you have met one person with autism - they are NOT all the same and do not all sit at the same point in the spectrum of autism. Some have little impact on their life and can live a full life with little assistance/support to others than require 24/7 care to get up/toilet/function/life live etc etc, some non verbal/some severe learning disability whilst others highly intelligent but struggle with daily interactions.

My friend would gladly where her daughter lies for a person with autism that lives a fairly usual life able to work and live independently - her daughter is violent, doesn't understand, needs 24/7 care and struggles with everything. Still it has become politically correct to assume everyone struggles the same way with autism which doesn't help those that struggle more

[quote BlankTimes]The Spectrum
neuroclastic.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/[/quote]
Yep and for each of those categories individuals struggle more or less than others. Again all individuals with autism are different and not all the same. Some suffer more that others with each of those areas.

[quote AliceLivesHere]@covidcloser

Some people would argue that all people with autism are the same and have them same difficulties. Bollocks of course. A spectrum means just that - all sit at different places on the spectrum.

Meet one person with autism and you have met one person with autism - they are NOT all the same and do not all sit at the same point in the spectrum of autism. Some have little impact on their life and can live a full life with little assistance/support to others than require 24/7 care to get up/toilet/function/life live etc etc, some non verbal/some severe learning disability whilst others highly intelligent but struggle with daily interactions.

My friend would gladly where her daughter lies for a person with autism that lives a fairly usual life able to work and live independently - her daughter is violent, doesn't understand, needs 24/7 care and struggles with everything. Still it has become politically correct to assume everyone struggles the same way with autism which doesn't help those that struggle more[/quote]

None of this is what I said.

Your idea of the autistic spectrum is incorrect.

I understand some people are more severely affected than others, however the 'autistic spectrum' is not indicative of this. Like I said originally, is about how autism affects the individual.

[quote AliceLivesHere]@covidcloser

"The 'spectrum' doesn't have ends. It's not a mild to severe line."

Mild as in mildly affected. Severe as in severely affected. A spectrum very much has ends.... you know... one end mildly affect and one end much more severely affected - that's what a spectrum is![/quote]
The spectrum isn't not autistic to really autistic. It refers to the severity of autistic traits and support needs. You can have someone who is unable to speak but able to live independently, or someone who appears very social but cannot live independently. Which one is 'severely autistic'?

Disabled kids were kept behind high walls or they were in the likes of borstal.

My nana was actually shunned for refusing to send her disabled son away, things have changed for the better. That's all thats happened.

Many of these problems were less diagnosed or sometimes diagnosed as something else. A study by Brugha et al (2011) found that autistic spectrum disorder rates were similar in children, younger adults and older adults, when the same criteria were used to assess them - though the older adults usually had not received such a diagnosis. As regards SEN in general: until the 80s, children with significant SEN were usually educated in special schools, which meant that most people were less aware of them.

@azimuth299

You said the same thing as I did but in a different way.

Yes some autistic individuals have higher support needs and cannot live independently and some can live independently with low support needs,,,, hence quite different - so not the same.

[quote AliceLivesHere]@azimuth299

You said the same thing as I did but in a different way.

Yes some autistic individuals have higher support needs and cannot live independently and some can live independently with low support needs,,,, hence quite different - so not the same.[/quote]

That poster actually said the same as me!

Nobody, literally nobody is arguing that all autistic people are the same/have the same level of support needs. But your idea that the autistic spectrum is a measurement of one persons needs against another is incorrect.

Using the widening term of what is autism which has developed over the years, more and more individuals would be diagnosed that back with the original idea of what autism meant. So therefore more and more are diagnosed now.

"The ICD-11 differs from the DSM-5 in several key ways. Instead of requiring a set number or combination of features for a diagnosis, it lists identifying features and lets clinicans decide whether an individual’s traits match up. Because the ICD is intended for global use, it also sets broader, less culturally specific criteria than the DSM-5 does. For instance, it puts less emphasis on what games children play than whether they follow or impose strict rules on those games. The ICD-11 also makes a distinction between autism with and without intellectual disability, and highlights the fact that older individuals and women sometimes mask their autism traits."

IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO EDUCATE YOU!!! As a mum of ASD children, there just ISN'T enough time to explain the complexities and limitations of ASD / SEN.

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