To be confused by SEN, Autism, etc in children?

[Sallygoround631]

A sensitive topic, but I am curious, and hope that it isn't somehow improper to ask.
I admit to ignorance, because I don't have children, and I have not had much experience with children with SEN, Autism, allergies, etc.

What I want to know is, in your opinion, are there more kids with these issues now than, say, 40 years ago, when was a kid in the 80's? (when everything was put down to orange smarties and over activeness)

Was it simply less diagnosed or unknown, and put down to other, behavioural issues?
If so, then I am very glad we are no longer living with such ignorance.
But I am also curious to know if these cases have increased, or merely been there all along?

If they have increased, what are the reasons? Does anyone know?

I feel this is a tender topic and do not wish to cause upset. I am absolutely out of the loop and would love to hear about it.

Educate me!

@PickUpAPepper

Not all kids with autism are 'thick' or 'naughty' or both though. Nor is autism always a handicap - it's a bloody big area now, lots of very different people are all being classed as being 'autistic' and therefore being told that there is something wrong with them. I believe that, at least for some manifestations of this sweeping concept 'autistic', it's probably a perfectly normal aspect of human neurological and learned behaviour which is now being declared a disadvantage in a degenerating economy which is less tolerant than ever before of anything outside a highly-socialised mainstream conformism.

Goodness. I don't even know where to start

@Emilyontmoor

SinkgirlAs vitamin D deficiency is increasing, it seems to make sense to me that this is a possible factor* So you are arguing that the numbers of autistic people and those with SpLDs has increased as a result of environmental causes? That it is not the recognition that children who are not affected profoundly enough to have been recognised in the past, as yours would have been, could still be severely affected in their school experience as highlighted by so many experiences on here?

My DCs and DNs are diagnosed, my DB was so severely affected it was diagnosed in the 70s but I now recognise the lifelong challenges I have faced. My Father faced similar challenges, was a nightmare at school, but succeeded in business.

I struggle to see Vitamin D or any other environmental factor as the reason that we have all come to recognise a difference that has occurred in our family for 87 years?

No I’m saying what I said - that it’s a potential factor in some cases.

And it’s not me hypothesising, it’s based on some interesting emerging evidence - feel free to look it up.

There’s also things like cerebral folate deficiency which in scientific terms is a new discovery (last decade or so) - another poster here made me aware of it and the studies are quite shocking.

Obviously maternal vitamin D deficiency alone is unlikely to be the cause, which is what I said in my original comment. Yes of course increased awareness and better access to diagnosis is a factor in increased numbers too. There are obviously going to be many factors. In our case, my twins have been through the 100k Genomes project and they can’t find any currently known genetic issue linked to ASD - it’s possible this may change with increasing numbers of studies and new discoveries. Obviously ASD in the family increases likelihood of others also being autistic, so some form of predisposition is likely, but how and why are not known yet.

@PickUpAPepper you sounds like you don’t have much experience with autism.

I assume those who believe things are over diagnosed have no idea about the actual process families have to go through in order to be diagnosed. Believe me it involves judgement of parenting every step of the way!

@MrsJuliaGulia

If you ask me, there is overdiagnosis of SEN these days. It's easy to blame crap parenting on SEN. These days, professionals will not come out and say "your kid has "ADHD" because he or she is thrown in front of TV and gaming devices every day after school". As I said, crap parenting.

ODFOD. I’ve encountered literally hundreds of children with SEN and their parents in the last few years - do you know how challenging it is and how long it takes to get a diagnosis in our system? No one is handing diagnoses out for shit parenting.

@MrsJuliaGulia oh dear, 0/10 for effort, must try harder.

@covidcloser it’s not ignorant to be extremely dubious about this post. Don’t be surprised to find your accounts in the daily mail over the next few days, like the poor woman who hates being a mum and posted about it a couple of days ago. I just don’t believe it’s a genuine query.

If you ask me, there is overdiagnosis of SEN these days.

What's your professional connection?

It's easy to blame crap parenting on SEN.

Is it?

These days, professionals will not come out and say "your kid has "ADHD" because he or she is thrown in front of TV and gaming devices every day after school".

Of course they won't. But they will say 'your child does not have ADHD'. Nobody, literally nobody is diagnosing children with ADHD when they don't have ADHD.

As I said, crap parenting.

What is crap parenting? Lots of parents are crap, but if the child has ADHD (or ASD etc) then they have it.

This is the kind of attitude we are trying to shake off and it's the very example of why people are so bloody defensive on threads like this.

You should be embarrassed for thinking a professional would diagnose a child who doesn't fit the criteria for that diagnosis.

Such a crap parent that i spend half my time fighting to make sure DS has access to all the basic services he needs.

[quote EleanorOlephantisjustfine]@covidcloser it’s not ignorant to be extremely dubious about this post. Don’t be surprised to find your accounts in the daily mail over the next few days, like the poor woman who hates being a mum and posted about it a couple of days ago. I just don’t believe it’s a genuine query.[/quote]
I didn't say you were ignorant to be dubious though. I said you were ignorant to assume it is easy for everyone to google. I even went on to explain why I find extracting information from google difficult.

@helpmewiththisnew

Well there is a lot of SN children particularly ASD at my DS' school. So I would say much more is diagnosed and seems to be from quite young here. I in fact do worry about how many in his class, even though my DS is one of 'them.' I just don't think all their needs can be met. And it must be confusing for the NT children why some children get away with certain behaviour.

Op I had a similar thread recently.

One of 'them'. Really?

@SinkGirl

There’s no way my children wouldn’t have been diagnosed 40 years ago. They are both non verbal, and the effect of their autism is pretty textbook.

I’ve read a lot of interesting research into causes and believe there are a combination of factors - one factor seems to be maternal vitamin D deficiency. That would make sense for us. As vitamin D deficiency is increasing, it seems to make sense to me that this is a possible factor. But it’s likely to be a combination of factors, similar to other conditions where a combination of factors need to occur together for the condition to occur.

My DS is autistic and I was reading about vitamin d deficiency and autism the other day. There was a trial (I can’t remember where or how many children) where apparently 80% of autistic kids had improvement in behaviours when put on a high dose of vit D supplement. A trial with pregnant women reduced the number of babies later diagnosed with autism from 20% to 5% (mothers who already had at least one autistic child hence the higher odds). I found it very interesting but couldn’t see much follow-up research done and it was a few years ago, which seems a shame.

I believe there’s a genetic element with autism but that perhaps vitamin d deficiency has influence in some cases.

Anyone that thinks any ND diagnosis are handed out easily, clearly doesn't have a child with one loooool

@covidcloser I was assuming a journalist had the ability to google rather than make a lazy enquiry on here.. My bad for not making that clearer.

I the "olden days" SN and allergies were not as recognised. Children with allergies either suffered or died. Children with SN were either "naughty"'or "shy" or "not very bright" or "slightly odd" or "highly strung".

There are many more children with inhalers these days, because inhalers exist, and doctors know inhalers can help people with asthma. Not so many years ago children just wheezed, and occasionally died

[quote EleanorOlephantisjustfine]@covidcloser I was assuming a journalist had the ability to google rather than make a lazy enquiry on here.. My bad for not making that clearer.[/quote]

Yes. Yes it's all your 'bad'

I wasn't arguing with you about bloody journalists.

I was responding to your comment...

No one can be that stupid that they don’t know how to put a question into google.^^

@FatCatThinCat that advert How old is that? That is so incredibly disturbing. I'd show my dc so they could have a laugh at it but I wouldn't want one nano speck of it to sink into their consciousness. Absolutely appalling.

@covidcloser I think you’re being a little over sensitive. You can’t possibly take offence every time someone says something you don’t like. My comment was directed at someone I believe is a journalist, not you.

[quote EleanorOlephantisjustfine]@covidcloser I think you’re being a little over sensitive. You can’t possibly take offence every time someone says something you don’t like. My comment was directed at someone I believe is a journalist, not you.[/quote]

I didn't take offence though. I calmly and nicely explained why your comment didn't always apply.

We have a long legacy of dead women and girls from asthma attacks in my family. When I told my mother that my dd had it she was terrified. The fact that it is now very treatable is so different. We still have scary moments, but it’s not a death sentence anymore. So yes, definitely a lot more people walking around with asthma.

[quote ThyNameIsDave]@FatCatThinCat that advert How old is that? That is so incredibly disturbing. I'd show my dc so they could have a laugh at it but I wouldn't want one nano speck of it to sink into their consciousness. Absolutely appalling.[/quote]
I think it's around 10 years old although it is based on the much older 50s/60s polio information ads.

As a PP said... 'Anyone that thinks any ND diagnosis are handed out easily, clearly doesn't have a child with one'

Soooo unbelievably upsetting when family life is challenging on a daily basis (and family have endured years of appointments to find out why,) but we still have to hear minimising opinions, such as:
'Well we are all on the spectrum, aren't we?'
'Autism has just become 'popular' now.
'People are always giving children a label these days.'
(And even more upsetting when these opinions come from extended family who actually know that you have had to leave your employment in order to continue to cope with family life!)

I would never be so naive as to comment 'Well they look fine, so there's nothing wrong!' about a person diagnosed with bipolar disorder or type 1 diabetes. That person has been diagnosed by qualified professionals, for a very good reason! So, why, oh why, do we have to continue to hear such naive/stereotypical comments about autism and the diagnostic procedure?

Let's hope that attitudes change with the generations.

@TurquoiseLemur Yes, there are many adults undiagnosed, female and male.

I specifically mention females because (1) the early research almost completely ignored them, thus (2) missing the significant differences in how autism presents between the two sexes, leading to (3) a marked underdiagnosis in females.

There's still a lot of work to do in understanding the role of culture and societal expectation - one theory is that behaviour that is excused in boys often isn't in girls, so they need to learn to mask better and earlier.