To be confused by SEN, Autism, etc in children?

[Sallygoround631]

A sensitive topic, but I am curious, and hope that it isn't somehow improper to ask.
I admit to ignorance, because I don't have children, and I have not had much experience with children with SEN, Autism, allergies, etc.

What I want to know is, in your opinion, are there more kids with these issues now than, say, 40 years ago, when was a kid in the 80's? (when everything was put down to orange smarties and over activeness)

Was it simply less diagnosed or unknown, and put down to other, behavioural issues?
If so, then I am very glad we are no longer living with such ignorance.
But I am also curious to know if these cases have increased, or merely been there all along?

If they have increased, what are the reasons? Does anyone know?

I feel this is a tender topic and do not wish to cause upset. I am absolutely out of the loop and would love to hear about it.

Educate me!

I'm not sure. It was under diagnosed for certain going back to the 70s and 80s but going further back there's very little mention of it.
I have a DD with ASD so I know how hard it is but I wonder if it's on the increase due to environmental issues. I'm probably totally wrong though and it's just that any "different" child was hidden away and no one admitted having a child with "problems".
It's hard now having a child with SEN but I think it must have been much worse in the 70s and before when you couldn't even admit to needing help.

The reason a lot of us find these questions insensitive or even offensive, is we've had years of putting up with friends and family members putting pretty little posts on social media with things like "In my day it was called being a little shit".

We know not everyone is thinking this, but we can't stop the hackles rising all the same.

SEN and SN are not necessarily the same thing.

SEN refers specifically to educational needs (special education needs). Some has SEN if they have a difficulty in learning that means they require support in order to make progress or keep up with their peers.

SN refers to special needs, essentially a disability or condition (or longterm illness that would constitute a disability).

There is a lot of overlap between the two as many children with SN with also have SEN, often as a result of their disability/condition, however it is very possible for a child to have SEN and no corresponding SN (and visa versa). I have two DC with SN and both have SEN. I also have a DC with no SN who was briefly on the SEN register at school and received SEN support due to being behind in reading (very reluctant reader), this DC needed additional support in order to engage with reading and to catch up to age related expectations.

In years gone by, children with SEN would usually be labelled as "thick", "slow", or "lacking in aptitude". They'd be in bottom set for everything, not submitted for GCSEs, and stringy encouraged to leave school as early as possible and get a job or apprenticeship. I'm not talking about eons ago either, I remember kids I went to school with who were referred to by teachers as stupid or idiotic, to their faces too, and who left school at 16 to go straight into work.

Children with SN either went undiagnosed and were labelled as "naughty", "disruptive", "weird", etc or were diagnosed using the narrow criteria of the day and then moved into specialist provision, those with more complex needs would be institutionalised.

As understanding of neurodiversity has progressed so too has the diagnostic criteria and the diagnostic process. The current system isn't perfect - far from it - but it is better at recognising children who need support than the one in place 10/20/30 (and more) years ago.

At one point they only thought boys could be Autistic so that's another reason why cases have "risen"

Very undiagnosed in previous generations, misunderstood and far less known about brain and childhood development.

I believe environmental factors are apparently a trigger in raising risk of some conditions, but it was far more likely years ago that children were just called “awkward/shy/slow/deaf and dumb/hyperactive” whereas now we know they are actual conditions.

The reason that specific learning differences haven’t died out with natural selection is that in some ways they are actually an advantage. Being neurodiverse can give you an advantage over others and some very special skills. I don’t think there were many people put into institutions because they were illiterate (dyslexic) or very energetic (adhd) or not the most sociable. They often just used the skills that they had to an advantage. The problem now is that we think every child should be the same, learn the same, have the same skills, achieve the same. Neurodiversity is more common in entrepreneurs and self made millionaires. Perhaps something hasn’t gone wrong with brain development, it’s gone wrong with our society!

The reason I and other parents despair at threads like this is that as the mother of a child with autism and SEN, it is not my job to educate you, you have a responsibility to educate yourself

Speak for yourself @HandforthParishCouncilClerk

Having ADHD myself and having two children who are autistic (and one who also as ADHD) I'm happy to be asked questions and also happy to share what I've learned along the way. I'm not offended or annoyed by your questions and appreciate that by asking these sort of questions you are, indeed, trying to educate yourself. Autism/ADHD charities tend to have lots of useful info and there are free online courses you can do to learn more.

I think ASD is still widely undiagnosed and particularly in girls. There are more diagnoses as awareness grows. Hard to believe that it has taken this long for people to realise we don't all think the same way!

Hi folks, I am going to a bit of web searching for certain things that have popped up in my mind since starting the thread.
I don't wish to upset anyone, and possibly should not have put this in AIBU, perhaps in a more dedicated forum.

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences, I am a lot less ignorant than I was merely an hour ago. Not that I consider myself ignorant exactly, but pretty much inexperienced. I am genuinely interested so shall look into it more myself.

It is a bit of a minefield, knowing how to phrase a question, or if it will cause offence. I wish it wants so, but I appreciate that many people here have previous experience of arseholes and ignorance, so, yeh.

Best wishes to all of you x

Under diagnosed now and was worse back then.

In the past 10 years 3 generations of women in my family have been diagnosed with autism. My DD's issues weren't taken seriously until she was 15. I had to wait 39 years for my diagnosis and my mother got hers at 67. So in my family the prevelance was the same but diagnosis has improved.

@BungleandGeorge

The reason that specific learning differences haven’t died out with natural selection is that in some ways they are actually an advantage. Being neurodiverse can give you an advantage over others and some very special skills. I don’t think there were many people put into institutions because they were illiterate (dyslexic) or very energetic (adhd) or not the most sociable. They often just used the skills that they had to an advantage. The problem now is that we think every child should be the same, learn the same, have the same skills, achieve the same. Neurodiversity is more common in entrepreneurs and self made millionaires. Perhaps something hasn’t gone wrong with brain development, it’s gone wrong with our society!

Wonderful comment, thanks! I know a few people who fit this description. my life would suck without them, too. They did have a shit time at school.

@Thisusedtobeaniceneighbourhood absolutely! That's why I am happy to educate people around me so these absolute bollocks myths (everyone is a bit autistic or if your child is perceived as high functioning it's fine because they are only a 'little bit' autistic an only 'just' on this mythical 1-100 type scale spectrum) can be de-bunked.

When people talk fo a 'spectrum', do any of you think we are all on it?

No, we are not "all a little bit autistic" or "all on the spectrum somewhere".

I have two feet, can make a tweeting noise, and if I board an aeroplane I can fly. It doesn't mean I'm a little bit of a bird or that I'm on the bird spectrum.

At one point they only thought boys could be Autistic so that's another reason why cases have "risen"

Yes to this. Neurodevelopment conditions have always been massively underdiagnosed in girls and still are although this is slowly changing.

It is not uncommon for parents going through the assessment process with their child to have lightbulb moments about their own development and realise that they themselves are quite probably not NT, many do go on to be assessed and are diagnosed too.

Don’t worry about it OP I have 2 children with ASD and still wonder why people get offended at certain things.

People get offended because a lot of us have learned to cynical due to realising that, in many cases, inclusion and diversity very quickly vanishes as soon as NT people think it is inconveniencing them or they think that ND people are getting an advantage they aren't.

@Oneandanotherone

Don’t worry about it OP I have 2 children with ASD and still wonder why people get offended at certain things.

I was just going to say, some Mumsnetters would take offence if an OP asked why the sky is blue.

I get that some people don't want to educate others and I get why too.

But I don't get why they didn't just click out of the thread.

Interesting thread OP and I've learned a few things too just by reading. Google isn't always our friend when it comes to everything as it can be quite overwhelming with all the information on certain topics.

I have two feet, can make a tweeting noise, and if I board an aeroplane I can fly. It doesn't mean I'm a little bit of a bird or that I'm on the bird spectrum

ok this stumped me. im confused.

www.spectrumnews.org/news/evolution-autism-diagnosis-explained/

I think its because it wasn't talked about back then. People are more aware off it now

@BlatantlyNameChanged

People get offended because a lot of us have learned to cynical due to realising that, in many cases, inclusion and diversity very quickly vanishes as soon as NT people think it is inconveniencing them or they think that ND people are getting an advantage they aren't.

that is fucked up, im sorry.

There was someone in my family who would be almost 100 now, were he still alive (he died of old age).

I didn't know him well, but he was educated, always lived independently and during the war he'd worked, presumably because the labour shortage made him look more appealing to employers. He ended up in a reserved occupation, though whether or not the army would have wanted him is something I don't know.

Anyway, the family story was that he was the way he was - "bit odd", "keeps himself to himself", "not great at small talk" etc etc - because he'd witnessed a deeply traumatic event as a small boy, though it was always questionable if he actually has witnessed it.

With hindsight, I think if he'd been born nowadays he would have been diagnosed with Asperger's / ASD, which is a suspicion shared by others.

I think those people were always there - it was just that they either died early from complications (eg Downs syndrome and heart complaints, undiagnosed allergies), were locked away in institutions, or the language used to describe them was less specific and less medical - "slow", "odd", "loner" etc etc

I have two feet, can make a tweeting noise, and if I board an aeroplane I can fly. It doesn't mean I'm a little bit of a bird or that I'm on the bird spectrum

ok this stumped me. im confused.

You're either a bird or you're not. You may share traits in common with a bird - number of feet, ability to make a bird noise, potential of flight - but that doesn't make you a bird. The same is true of autism. Lots of people may have traits that are common to autism but that doesn't make them "a little bit on the spectrum" or mean that "we're all a little bit autistic".

I suppose I get offended because I'm autistic and my entire existence has been just one big misunderstanding. It's hard to read the same misconceptions over and over again and not get a bit 'ffs' about it. It's a difficult life to live having people so opinionated about your diagnosis. People always jumping to the 'oh could they be ASD' etc on threads. It's tiring. I suppose that's it. I get offended because I'm tired of it. I'm exhausted thinking about it, reading about it, trying to explain it. It shouldn't be my default but it has become that because of the constant wrong assumptions. I have actually learned a lot on this thread about myself too. I should take a step back and try to explain when people don't know. So I will take that away from this and I'm sorry OP for jumping to the defence without stopping to think.

The reason I and other parents despair at threads like this is that as the mother of a child with autism and SEN, it is not my job to educate you, you have a responsibility to educate yourself

Well that is EXACTLY what the OP is trying to do. Learn more. You being rude to her doesn't help "society" be more understanding, it means people are afraid to ask and stay having very little knowledge.

I do agree that identification is so much better than it was before. Not just autism (though knowledge about and identification of autism have come on massively in the last 30 years or so) but also in terms of various medical conditions.

However, there is also a significant increase in the numbers of dc with really significant needs. I don't know why, but I do know there is. Some (a small proportion, in my opinion, but I don't have data on it) will be children that have been kept alive by advances in medicine - dc born very prematurely, and dc born with some medical conditions that would have meant the did not survive some decades ago. Many though do have really significant needs in higher numbers than decades ago.

Severely under diagnosed in the past and also less onus on the school to keep them in, so the kid that in the 80s was in your class for a couple of terms then shipped elsewhere because they were 'naughty' would now stay in your class so it would be more visible to you.
We've still got a long way to go, particularly when it comes to diagnosing neuro-diversity in girls, but we're a lot more knowledgeable and willing to try to understand children than we were even thirty years ago thank god.

Maybe it’s because all their parents were fed orange smarties