About working full time with young children

[lemonadeandstrawberries]

My partner and I have a seven month old. Before I had her I had a pretty demanding senior role in a school. It was also over an hours commute. Went on maternity leave and handed in my notice. I applied for teaching roles without any additional responsibilities and was successful a few months ago. Due to start in September.

Since it’s a new role and not returning to one it’s full time. Not really ideal but my plan was to work full time and also to hopefully have another baby, then request more flexibility. Ideally a three day week.

I suppose what I’m wondering is once I’ve got this if it’s reasonable to maintain it long term. To be honest I’d prefer to. I’d like to do primary drop offs and pick ups and be available for some assemblies and so on.

But I’m also conscious that life isn’t cheap, my children will need help with house deposits and so on. Is it better to invest in their future?

I’m just looking for views on this I suppose.

Hi OP

I was a SAHM when my DC were pre-schoolers, after resigning from a full-on stressful job. I went back to work when my youngest started school. I got a job in HE and was lucky enough to get a part time position (0.5 FTE) even though it was a new role. This was because I wanted to pick my kids up from school some days and not have them in wraparound care 5 days a week.

Now my kids are a bit older (youngest is just finishing Y6) and I have increased my hours to 0.7 FTE so I still get a bit of flexibility during the week plus Fridays off.

It's great! Like you, my DH works long hours and earns a lot more than me, so it has been really good for me to be around a bit more for the kids during the week. If you can afford it I would highly recommend

I’m not sure I agree that full time work is fine because of long school holidays.

So out of 52 weeks I have 12. That’s great - but it’s still far more time without them than with.

@lemonadeandstrawberries

I’m not sure I agree that full time work is fine because of long school holidays.

So out of 52 weeks I have 12. That’s great - but it’s still far more time without them than with.

I think that's a decision for you to make on your own personal values/finances really.

We have 3, 1 primary, 2 FT nursery. We both work full time and have demanding careers in banking and civil service (both senior roles).

It is our choice but we manage well between us. One does drop offs, the other pick ups. So I start work really early and finish late and DP does the opposite. It is actually easier when they are very young. Between the two of us we haven't missed a single assembly so it is doable. We just make sure that our employers value our contribution enough that we can request flexibility.

Yes but dogs that couldn’t work here. DP is often away. If I’m ft I’ve no flexibility. So things would be missed.

When they are little (not yet school age), working FT is pretty easy. In normal times, I have a 3 hour commute to the office. Yes, you read that right. I leave at 6am and I get home at 7-8pm 3 days a week. The other days I work from home (so no commute). Dh does the drop offs/pick ups on my long days and I do them on the days I wfh. Honestly, it's absolutely fine. In the country where I grew up, working FT with small children is very much the norm. My mum went back to work when I was 3 months.

When they get to be school age, it gets trickier, so I would bank all the time you have now when life is simpler. What has worked best for us is actually not having a term time only job. It means I have ample AL to use as and when I want to. Dh is self-employed, so no paid leave, but he also has lots of flexibility. Holiday clubs and time off with one of us works well for school holidays. The flexibility means that one or usually both of us can always take off for school plays, sports days, parent's evening as we aren't so bound to set working patterns. We work long days and many evenings after dc are in bed, but we can always be fully present when they need us during the day.

I would also just say to keep your options open for what you might want to do in the future. With a 7 month old, it's so hard to envision what you'll want to do in a few years time. I absolutely reached a point when I couldn't get back to work fast enough. Saving for house deposits for future children who haven't even been born yet wouldn't be a priority for me. Sure yourself up financially now, have lovely holidays, plan activities, save and build your pension and think about the work-life balance you want now but also accept it may change in the future.

If You are planning another dc soon then defo go back ft, get full mat pay, then see how you feel about reducing hours after dc2. I can't understand when people go back PT but then go off again ASAP, some even pregnant on their return- surely going back ft for a short time is worth it to get full maternity pay?

I am slt in a school with 2 dc and have always worked ft, it is doable but I do have very supportive and flexible dh.

It is financially sensible to do as you’ve suggested bentley but there are other factors to take into account.

I think I’d struggle to get a non teaching job with equivalent pay, to be honest, mind

There is no "best" OP. I think that's why you are getting such a range of answers. It's just what works for you and your family. We both work full time and have a nanny to look after our child. Other families have a stay at home parent or one or both go part time. They all make it work.

Range of answers is great, it’s interesting and thought provoking.

Three kids here, both work full time with flexibility. For us it’s not about the hours, it’s about organising ourselves so we can drop off and pick up, have time off for holidays etc. We also get help.. cleaners and shopping online etc. works great and kids are thriving

I found working part time when my son was younger than school age worked much better than full time. It meant that I could do fun things with him (trips to the zoo, swimming, going to the park etc) when things were quieter/cheaper.

I went full time over the pandemic (I’m in healthcare), but with some flexibility/WFH/compressed hours. Once he’s in school, I will keep that flexibility to allow myself time to get house stuff done, have time to myself with no children around, etc.

If you have no flexibility your role, I would stay part time. You have no other time to yourself with children.

I do think the lack of flexibility in teaching is quite a big factor - DH found that it made an enormous difference having a day off in the week that he could use to run errands or have appointments (though he does have to do it with children in tow!), much bigger than the difference it made to me because my work was already more flexible in that regard.

I think the problem is there are no direct comparisons.

I have two sets of friends where both worked full time with two small children. One couple had a nursery literally on the street adjoining theirs. Both lived and worked very centrally, so were maybe a 30 minute walk from work. They had 'big', ie well paid, but flexible jobs - one often had to do calls with the states, so it meant he could pick up fairly early and then go back on calls after bedtime.

The others had long commutes. They were all up at 5.45 to leave the house at 7.15 to be at their desks by 8.30 so they could leave in time to do pick up. Both juggled international travel around this, and needed to be present in work a lot. Kids were tired, and once they started primary it was two stops to breakfast club and childminder etc etc. The mum in particular said she found their set up was hard on the kids.

The first couple made it look v easy, and directly influenced our decision to buy a smaller more centrally located house and get childcare close to our house. Covid was great in that we had time with both of us at home and no childcare which gave kind of a comparison to us- absolutely hellish in some ways, but when my 18 month old went back to childcare I could honestly see it benefited her in lots of ways. We can work it so she's dropped at 9 and picked up at 5, I've said this before on here but kids nap in the day, and sleep early so actually how much time you're with them morning and evening and how much time they're actually awake in creche should factor in. I don't think working full time with child dropped off at 6.30 almost directly from bed then picked up at 6.30 to be home for bath and bedtime is comparible to shorter hours.

For us, full time work is the best thing, for us and our child, but we have a lot of flexibility esp with WFH now. Re: your partner, mine used to be a much much higher earner than me then retrained. I understand the difficulty in suggesting he go part time. But honestly, having us both as 'equal' parents, making sacrifices to ensure he's involved (he did unpaid parental leave at the end of my mat leave) is a genuine sacrifice we have both benefited from. Its not just about what makes most sense financially: its about what is most effective to prioritise your children having equal relationships with both parents. We were discussing this recently: one friend has given up work due to ill health and it has absolutely shifted the dynamic of their parenting relationship. I would say the most engaged and involved dads I know are in relationships where both parents work and the dads have had to step up. So its something to consider as well: if you stepping back from work means him stepping up in work and being less present, I'd be reluctant.

Also: different children need different things. I have a child who settled in like a dream, loves her friends, loves being home and is generally thriving. When she has been off for self-isolation etc, she genuinely starts pining for them and getting bored. One of her best buddies though really struggled with settling in, and clearly prefers being home, and if I had one like that and all the choice in the world I probably would go part time. So its hard to see into the future.

I know nothing about teaching as a career but what I would say is this: you can always make more money, especially if you’ve remained in the workplace and in a career, but you can’t make more time. If you can keep your foot on the career ladder, you can always choose to progress your career more when you feel your children need you less. Or not, as you wish.

My choice has been to work part time and to have between one and two days per week at home and I would hate to be full time while I have small children. I also like to be able to do the school run one or two days per week. This isn’t intended to judge anyone who makes different choices - it’s just what works for me personally and our family.

Other people I know much prefer to be full time and find it easier workload-wise (part time can mean “full time in fewer hours”, in my experience, especially at four days a week) and are happy to have quality time with their kids at weekends and in the holidays.

We are in a similar position in that we have no family locally, so no plan B beyond annual or dependents leave for those days when one child is ill or the other has a special assembly which requires you to work from home around it/take the day off. For us, the flexibility is more important than the full time salary at this stage (which in our case would be eaten up by increased childcare and commuting costs) but everyone is different and that may not work for others.

I went back full time after having DC1 because I started a new job unknowingly pregnant, so didn't get maternity pay. I self funded it through savings so went back full time with the vision that I'd go down to 4 days once my savings were replaced. In reality I got used to working full time with a DC, got used to the money, and never reduced hours.

Now I'm on maternity leave with DC2 and I'm also trying to decide whether to go back part or full time. However, I have flexibility in my role and work from home bar a few days a month. I also live 2 mins from the pray school so when the time comes I will be able to take an hour or so out of my day to nip to things like sports days and plays. I will also pay for breakfast and after school clubs if needed. I'm not sure I'd go full time if I didn't have this flexibility.

I am mainly motivated by money, and a desire to set up a future where I can pay for DC's uni and first house deposit. Also I want a decent pension where I'm not looking to my children for financial support, can pay for care rather than rely on them etc. I think in the grand scheme of things that will impact their lives more than whether or not I go to the Nativity.

I definitely think it's personal preference. We don't have family childcare and I never wanted to return full time after having DD. I do part time hours but to make it worth while I have to do it around dps job so we don't have to pay childcare. My days are long and my pay is rubbish compared to before I had DD but it means I am with her the majority of the time.

I have lots of friends who have returned full time and finds that works for them. They certainly have a nicer life style than me and less money worries which must be nice. There's sacrifices whatever you choose and I appreciate some people won't even really have a choice money wise. I guess I'm fortunate in a way.

I work three days a week, it's reasonably well paid. My husband works four days but his is compressed so he gets full time pay. We have three children aged 5 and under.

I don't think I'll ever work full time again, but by the time my daughter is in high school I'll be in my 50s and probably want to be around for their teen years too.

Yes there are sacrifices to do with money, but personally I would rather sacrifice my money than my time with my children.

My view is almost entirely coloured by my upbringing though, both parents had 'big jobs' my dad worked abroad for much of the time. Lots of money but no time at all and I never felt important. I have barely seen my parents since I turned 18 and we went permanently NC about 8 years ago. They will never meet my children.

Their working loads wasn't the reason but it meant that we didn't really know each other and didn't have a good foundation to fall back on when we hit conflict, I just didn't really feel any connection to them.

I think their lifestyle was a mistake to be honest and if they were trying to insure my future or something then it was a waste of time because they had no part in it.

It comes down to personal choice but I am comfortable with my decisions.

Just seen your post about your parents dying early in retirement, OP. Really sorry about that - I have a similar experience.
There needs to be a balance between enjoying life now and preparing for the future. It's a luxury to have the option - but like you I'm very aware that it could all be gone in a moment, and you have to enjoy the now and not put things off.

@TiddleTaddleTat

Just seen your post about your parents dying early in retirement, OP. Really sorry about that - I have a similar experience. There needs to be a balance between enjoying life now and preparing for the future. It's a luxury to have the option - but like you I'm very aware that it could all be gone in a moment, and you have to enjoy the now and not put things off.

I completely agree with this. We can't really afford holidays abroad just now (not that we could go anyway - Covid) but that's the only real sacrifice. I don't see the point in slaving away for 50 weeks of the year to enjoy two weeks in the sun, the way my life is now we enjoy every week!

I thought I was reading my own post for a second there!

I will not be having a second child but have the one and dropped SLT role.

I worked FT for a while but have dropped to part time. My child is 3 at the moment.
I think what’s best for you will be to consider how much you would not earn during the time that you go part time and if that’s actual enough to warrant going FT vs PT. if talking of investing in their future that could be financial but that could also be what you as a parent can provide

For example at the moment i have no working day midweek. We use this for activities at reduced cost as it is midweek and during term time. I might be losing a days pay but I’m also not paying for childcare, and having often cheaper activity days (zoo, theme park, beach etc).

I can pick up and drop off one day a week and he absolutely loves that.

Career wise if you plan on just remaining a teacher that’s fine.

When he goes to school he will probably do breakfast club or after school club and I’ll be able to do one of those.

Also salary increments in the future would mean you’d be paid more on the same scale compared to now.

Good luck!

@lemonadeandstrawberries

I really think some are totally misunderstanding me, and I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m not saying ‘is this possible’ or ‘is this doable’. Obviously it is.

What I am asking is whether it is best. Bearing in mind we have no family to help.

It’s BEST to be home with your children as much as possible. They won’t care that you’re trying to save for their future. They will want you present.

My child is at school now, and I still work only 15 hours a week (3 short days). It’s important to me that I can take her to school every day, be there to pick her up every day, and be there as much as possible during the holidays.

They will remember the time you spent with them (or without).

@lemonadeandstrawberries

Ah, no, he wouldn’t be going part time.

Obviously the teaching holidays are really good but it still means very young children being in FT nursery for several weeks at a time, which isn’t ideal really.

No, it’s not ideal.

Obviously we don’t know your financial situation but if by going PT after DC2 you would fund yourselves significantly missing out eg on days or meals out or holidays compared to life pre-DC then you might start to resent it. If you were struggling to get by each month then no don’t do it. But if you can afford to and it might just mean being a it more careful with spending then I recommend it.

I have worked 3dpw since DC came along. When they were tiny it meant mainly just spending time with them but also eg going to a parent and toddler group and at least eg getting the washing done even if almost no housework. Once they were both in school it was a revelation! I could obviously drop off and pick up on my days off. We no longer had to spend the weekends doing the housework and admin. If they were eg ill on a normal working day or there was a school event to attend then I could often arrange to work another day instead to make up for it. Not so easy as a teacher though!

But it took DH until DC were top end of primary to realise that going PT and seeing more of DC (both before/ after school but also at weekends as could get jobs done on day off) was better than retiring early so he now does 4dpw. But what I would say is that right from the start we shared nursery drop offs and pick ups so there was none of this “my job is too important to leave at 5pm” - harder for him to argue at start as we were at the time in same company in same role at same level but we have stuck to throughout even though we are now in different roles and companies. Basically avoid becoming the default parent.

It’s BEST to be home with your children as much as possible. They won’t care that you’re trying to save for their future. They will want you present.

My child is at school now, and I still work only 15 hours a week (3 short days). It’s important to me that I can take her to school every day, be there to pick her up every day, and be there as much as possible during the holidays.

They will remember the time you spent with them (or without).

This is all just your opinion. I can't see any correlation at all in adults between whether or not their parents both worked and how close they are to them now or to whether they would describe themselves as happy either now or during their childhood. My mum worked throughout my childhood and I've never felt anything negative about that - but, interestingly, I recently discovered that my brother did dislike it. It's just not possible to predict or control your adult relationship from decisions you make when they're small children (assuming that the decision isn't to abuse them). And I do know people who very much wish that their parents had been able to give them more opportunities and financial support - they won't think that as toddlers but it doesn't mean they never will.

I think expecting them to have fond memories or to be grateful for the extra money is the worst reason to decide either way. Some of the bitterest women I know are women who felt they devoted themselves fully to their children and are very disappointed that their children aren't as grateful or as attentive in return as they feel they should be; of course, there are also many who feel that their children are entirely ungrateful for money and opportunities they worked hard to give them and that they didn't make the most of it.

Do what you think is best for the whole family now and in the long-term, not what you think the children will appreciate the most later - the former is your decision to make, the latter isn't in your control.