Think the way people use the term 'trans widow' is insensitive to actual widows?

[justmaybenot]

The wives of men who have transitioned often use the term 'trans widow' and some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned. AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died? This is the letter rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

And actually, the narrative amongst TRAs is that the 'old self' is ^so 'dead' and non-existent that it shouldn't even come up on a DBS check as being the same person!

But women can't use widow... Okaaaaay....

I don't really understand the spite against her (or the absolute aggression against me here).

There is no 'aggression' against you here. People are making point after point as to why they feel YABU. That is not 'aggression' and to paint women making salient points as being aggressive smacks of misogyny to me.

Is there no way to discuss any of this with a modicum of civility?

I wish I had a pound for every time someone has come on to Mumsnet rather than, say, Twitter to tell us the importance of civility in this debate. I'd have paid my mortgage off by now.

@justmaybenot

No, I'm not trying to provoke any particular response, I just think that the letter cited above makes some good points and as her husband actually physically died she's worth listening to as she has this direct experience. I'm trying to understand my own responses to all this and wondered what other people thought. I don't really understand the spite against her (or the absolute aggression against me here).

The letter cited above makes the writer sound nasty, bitter and small minded imo.

@justmaybenot

If you genuinely don't understand why transwidows are being targeted, then take just 10 minutes to read some of the stories on their website.

I guarantee it will all become absolutely crystal clear.

www.transwidowsvoices.org/

letter was pretty compelling

Why do you think this? You haven’t explained why any of it was compelling.

Even if she personally feels upset, neither she nor you have explained why it should be generally offensive given both the general metaphorical use of the word ‘widow’, the concept of ‘deadnaming’, the legal consequences of a GRC and the slogan ‘Trans women are women’.

Strictly speaking threads on this topic should be on a different board, but having posted on AIBU you seem to be surprised that you are getting a robust response to a weak argument.

I have noticed a trend on threads like this where the OP confuses disagreement with aggression.

but it's very very difficult to have any even slightly reasonable discussion about any of this it seems.

We can now add "unreasonable" to the list, along with insensitive, spiteful, aggressive etc.

I can't comment on what any other trans widows have said on Twitter as I'm taking a break due to the death and rape threats that followed us talking to the Daily Telegraph about preserving our existing legal rights.

you'll get aggression on here, OP, because it simply is not possible to discuss these issues on here without it as there's a very loud group of people who'll shout it down. It's pointless discussing it on here - I imagine someone will be along in a sec to tell me I'm policing how woman use language because they have a virulent belief they speak for all women, when, thank goodness, they don't.

The OP comes back to complain about the aggression against her?

After Tinsel and the other transwidows have been subject to a week of rape and death threats and stalking?

Your bias is clear OP

@OunceOfFlounce

Isn't that how transpeople themselves ask to be spoken of?

To talk of your husband (not wife) would be dead-naming.

If someone has a problem with this line of thought, it should be taken up the trans community I guess.

Sorry, should be taken up with the trans community.

Who are you @everybodysang? You're not the OP.

prefer trans woman than just 'woman' I think.

Neatly avoiding the actual question. If trans woman is ok why isn't trans widow?

surely its up to the person whether they identify as a widow or not?

Anger isn’t always aggression.

Sometimes it’s just righteous anger.

@JaneJeffer

Who are you *@everybodysang*? You're not the OP.

I'm aware of that thanks.

@JaneJeffer

Who are you *@everybodysang*? You're not the OP.

OH apologies. I did NOT mean to quote you in my reply, I'm not sure what happened there.

Just as I'm aware I can post what I want without your permission @everybodysang

*everybodysang". Name change fail?

Also, being able to tell fact from fiction isn’t phobic.

Having boundaries isn’t hateful.

Standing firm on the side of protection of vulnerable people (often children) isn’t unempathetic.

I prefer trans woman than just 'woman' I think. I'm probably in tune with Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. I haven't talked about this on MN before or even read any of the threads about it.

If that’s true, the person who wrote that article, Rachel Moss, would call you a “TERF”, a transphobe, a “gender crit” in a derogatory way, and would not be your friend. The article she wrote comes from a trans activist place, not a widow’s place. She hasn’t been “attacked” on Twitter. The original post has 5000 likes and 195 replies, the majority of which are complimentary.

mobile.twitter.com/menysnoweballes/status/1408037453081022466

There are some, a minority, that express disagreement, which you also seem to view in a way that you consider an attack. She is quite rude in her replies: “your husband isn’t dead. Get out.”, and she calls a trans widow she doesn’t even know “crappy”. There is also one reply that made me raise an eyebrow where someone talks about their husband who didn’t reach his 60th birthday, and she for some reason felt obliged to point out her husband was much younger .

I really don't care what a load of transphobes think

Don't agree = transphobic
Don't agree = aggression
Don't agree = unkind
Actual rape and death threats = radio silence.

@FourTeaFallOut

I really don't care what a load of transphobes think

Don't agree = transphobic
Don't agree = aggression
Don't agree = unkind
Actual rape and death threats = radio silence.

nailed it